Russian vs. American politeness (was RE: [SEELANGS] О потере чув =?utf-8?Q?=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B2=D0=B0_=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B8=D0=BB=D1=8F_?=(Raia Rozina RAN))

Sun Oct 6 12:48:58 UTC 2013

Yes, imperative = imperious, unless it's between equals.. Yet, Since the 1950s "interviewers" act like interrogators: they decline to use politeness like "Can you tell me, could you tell me...". I first noticed the game in 1957 at US Army Counter-Intelligence School, where they taught this as the proper interrogation technique. . CIA Director Helms ran true to color when he was politely asked by a Congressman, "Can tell me etc.?" Helms answered "yes".  Boor and logic-rhetoric Neanderthal.

________________________________
 From: anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM>
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian vs. American politeness (was RE: [SEELANGS] О потере чувства стиля (Raia Rozina RAN))

The imperative in English is generally rude and has to be mitigated either syntactically (modality) or lexically (please). Russian mitigates differently. Aspect, person and tense can be employed. Think idi, idite and poshli. Such pragmatic structures are embedded in culture and as such are extremely difficult to acquire. I've been told that English speakers can sound like idiots in Russian and likewise Russians can sound rude in English due to pragmatic transfer. I used to enjoy listening to my Russian colleagues managing their classrooms - sadites', syadte or vse seli. 
I would be really interested to know if there has been any research into the use of the past as an imperative in Russian - and of course the thoughts of fellow seelangers. Pragmatics is an aspect of language that is often overlooked in teaching.
AM

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Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 16:59:09 +0000
From: mtsmith02 at YSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian vs. American politeness (was RE: [SEELANGS] О потере чувства стиля (Raia Rozina RAN))
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

A related incidence that of different language usage that I have had numerous discussions about is the use of the imperative, which seems to be perceived as "neutral" by speakers of Russian, but as an imposition, at least by me, a female native speaker of English (cf. Debra Tannen). I have discussed this with some Russian female friends, who perceived a "politer" questioning ("Would you like to..) as manipulative. Another Russian woman noted that German also does this ("Wollen sie..), even in a situation such as prison guard escorting a prisoner. 

Melissa Smith

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From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of anne marie devlin [anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 11:24 AM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian vs. American politeness (was RE: [SEELANGS] О потере чувства стиля (Raia Rozina RAN))

To be fair, I don't think Alina cited it as specifically Russian - she seemed to be comparing it to Japanese. Brown and Levinson (1978) cite 'minimising imposition' as a means of avoiding threat to negative face - i.e. to your interlocutor.  It seems in that regard English (and not just the American variety) and Russian are similar.  However, when it comes to Japanese, it has been argued that there is no concept of negative face (Ide) and hence 'minimising imposition' may not be part of the politeness repertoire of Japanese speakers.  

Wierzbicka has a very interesting article on cross-cultural miscommunication using Nabokov's Pnin as an example. (Intercultural Pragmatics, 2010, 7 (1))

As an aside, it was only after 4 years of living in Russia that I could call a shop assistant/waitress etc. девушка. It sounded such an insult to my English speaking ear.

AM

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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 14:43:05 +0000
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Russian vs. American politeness (was RE: [SEELANGS] О потере чувства стиля (Raia Rozina RAN))
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Alina cites 'nebol'šoj vopros' as an example of specifically Russian politeness--if it's a small question, it will seem less onerous to the addressee. But doesn't American English use the same ploy? My students say or write "Can I ask you a quick question?" to make it seem that they will not keep me busy for very long.

-- 
Wayles Browne, Prof. of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics
Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Alina Israeli [aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:27 AM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] О потере чувства стиля (Raia Rozina RAN)

It's an interesting interview, but unfortunately Rozina mixes different things there. For example, 

И вот я сталкиваюсь с тем, что студентка посылает мне часть своей курсовой работы и одновременно хочет задать какой-то вопрос. Она пишет: «Я хочу задать вам небольшой вопрос». И задает вполне большой содержательный вопрос. Но чтобы сделать свой поступок, как она считает, более приемлемым для меня и менее опасным, она пишет так.

Ah, that's a great example of Russian politeness (as a term of communication). Japanese politeness elevates the addressee in many ways, to start with the suffix -san. Russian politeness lowers the speaker. By calling it 'небольшой вопрос' she minimizes her own and the question's importance. She knows Russian communication etiquette which is so hard to teach to foreigners. 

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