dhaN 'past' in OP

[Koontz John E]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 rlarson at unlnotes01.unl.edu wrote:
> Anyway, my feeling for the Dorsey texts is that =the does not work
> well there as an evidential, but that it does work in parallel
> contrast with =dhaN in both spatial and temporal dimensions.
> =the refers to a precise spot as a location, or to a specific point
> or accomplished action in time, while =dhaN refers to a general
> area in space or to a general period in time.  If =dhaN references
> a period of time in a sentence stating a reality, "past" would seem
> to be implied.

I seem to recall some discussion of this the : dhaN temporal contrast by
Dorsey - maybe in the notes and parenthetical comments in the texts?
I'm wondering if it applies only in 'when' clauses or temporal adverbs
constructed from demonstratives, articles, and "post positions."  If so,
I'd take it as applying with the use of the et al. as evidentials, and
perhaps separate from the additional (separate) use of dhaN as a past
marker.

> OP =hnaN can be glossed as "just" or "only" when it modifies a noun,
> but when it comes after a verb it seems to mean that the action is
> ongoing or especially repetitive.  I think the intent is to place
> the listener's focus right in the middle of it.

I agree that the marker is all of these things.  I think the progression
of ideas is 'just, only' => 'nothing but, exclusively' => something like a
habitual.   As I recall, the just glosses appear with s^naN and verbs,
too, in Dorsey.

> > "NaN'ppa=hi=      ge= dhaN wiN iN'dhiNgi=ga,"            a=bi=ama
> > chokecherry bush the PAST one come back with one for me he said
> >
> > "Get me one of the chokecherry bushes about [like you used to]," he said.
> >
> > Preceding sentence:  walk to seek medicine for me
>
> Could this be:
>  "chokecherry=bushes the=scattered in=that=area one bring=me"
>                                          he=reputedly=said
>
>  "Bring me one of the bushes from the chokecherry patch."
>
> By this interpretation, =dhaN would refer to an area, rather than a
> period of time.

The "about" in my rendition represented a nod to the 'scattered' sense of
ge 'the scattered'.  I went with Dorsey's 'past' gloss for dhaN, because
series of articles are unusual, and because there were parallels of this
use of a past marker with nouns.  I just happened to pick this one as the
example.  [I know it must seem sometimes like I don't edit, but I really
do - some.]

> > WakkaN'dagi=  khe=dhaN wi' t?e'=adhe," a'=bi=ama
> > water monster the PAST I   I killed him he said
> >
> > "It's I who killed the water monster [that there used to be]," he said
>
> Or:
> water=monster the=longitudinal in=the=[past]=period=of=time=that=you=
>                           know=about
>                     I=myself I=killed=him.
>
> It's I who killed the water monster that existed in that [past]
>                                    period of time.

By this logic we should find khe=the (or some article + the) as well as
article + dhaN, so this should be easy enough to test.

> > "Ppahe'=wadhahuni    ujna'=      khe= dhaN t?e'=adhe,"  a'=bi=  ama
> >  Hill   he eats them you told it CONT PAST I killed him he said QUOT
> >
> > I have killed (the) Devouring Hill that you [used to] tell of," he said.
>
> Or:
>  Devouring=Hill you=told=about=it the=lying in=the=[past]=period=of=time=
>                                          that=you=know=about
>                                     I=killed=him
>
> I killed the Devouring Hill you told about that existed in that [past]
>                                    period of time.
>
> I think this is actually the same as the one above it, but with a
> subordinate clause between the noun and the =khe.

That's kind of an unusual pattern of embedding.

> > "Mm!  S^e' c^?e'=dhe u'daN=akh=ama=dhaN.
> >
> >  Mm!  It [used to] be a good thing [difficult?] to kill that [kind].
>
> This one throws me.  I'm not sure how to understand the =akh=ama here,
> which I would normally read as "this is the one (subject), they say."
> Suggestions?

I think that I mistranslated - the akh(a)=ama is under the dhaN, so it
would have to be something like 'they used to say it was' not '(they say)
it used to be'.  I suppose udaN=akh(a) would have to be 'the good one',
too, not, 'a good thing', so maybe it's more like:

Mm!  that (kind) : to kill   : the good one : they used to say (it was)
                   a killer?                                   (one was?)

Or 'they used to say (one was) a good one to kill that (kind)'

The sense is about the same, but details count in grammar.

JEK