OP tt-

[Linda Cumberland]

Please remind me what tt- signifies for Omaha-Ponca- is it
glottalized, or somehow held longer...?  Thanks, -L
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> On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Violet Catches wrote:
> > >Can anyone tell me how or why the color green (To) is now the
color blue?
> > In Lakxota txo covers the blue of the sky and water
> > it also covers the grass and leaves of summer time
> > we make a distinction  between them by using maxpiya txo for blue
> > and makxa txo for green
> > Omaha and Hochunk do the same thing
>
> Yes, I've noticed something like that for Omaha-Ponca.  I think part
of
> the problem might be that lists of colors in English references on
> Omaha-Ponca instinctively adopt the notion that the English color
scheme
> is universal or primary, which, of course, it isn't.  So, some sort
of
> Omaha-Ponca translation is provided for both 'blue' and 'green',
whether
> or not these translations are actual fixed phrases (lexical items)
or
> merely descriptive phrases.  If it were an Omaha-Ponca reference on
> English, it would list 'blue, green' opposite ttu 'grue', and we
would
> have a situation like the "two Russian words for blue" that David
> mentions.
>
> My recollection is that older sources tended to give blue as ttu
s^abe
> 'dark grue', and green as ttu 'grue'.  More recent Omaha usage lists
blue
> as ttu 'grue' and green as ppez^ettu 'grass grue'.  I don't know if
Ponca
> has gone the same way.  The 'grue' term is fairly widely used by
students
> of color terminology, by the way, but I don't know who coined it.
My
> suspicion is that modern Omaha and Ponca usage may be more fixed, as
Omaha
> and Ponca adapt themselves to a situation in which English is widely
used.
> However, I don't know if any Siouan color system and its terminology
have
> ever been investigated with any degree of sophistication or
thoroughness,
> and I don't really know if the Omaha usage of ttu, ttu s^abe, and/or
> ppez^ettu is fixed and to what extent.  The use of s^abe as a
modifier
> occurs with several color terms.  Another common modifier was =xti
'very,
> real'.  There was some use of fricative gradation (s/s^/x or
z/z^/gh) or
> of palatalization (t/c^, tt/c^c^, d/j^).
>
> My favorite reference on the subject of Omaha-Ponca ttu is a comment
in an
> article by, I think, Howard on Ponca archeology or anthropology in
which
> he mentions a stone that is called maNhinttu 'grue knife(stone)' in
Omaha.
> He takes this as 'bluestone', but comments that examples of the
material
> that he's seen seem more 'greenish' to him.  (I may have reversed
the
> colors!)
>
> One other observation on Omaha-Ponca colors that I might make is
that I've
> seen xude 'grey' (cf. Dakotan xota) glossed things like 'tan' or
'violet'
> (an appropriate reference in the context!), and I've noticed that
students
> of Apache color systems (I don't recall the reference, but I have it
in my
> records) have noticed that some Apache dialects (I forget which)
have a
> term covering a range of indistinct, pale colors like 'grey, tan,
pink,
> violet' and so on.  This was a pattern of color term that the
original
> students of color systems hadn't noticed.  I think parallels were
> discovered elsewhere.  I thought this was both an interesting
structural
> parallel between Omaha-Ponca color terminology and another color
> terminology somewhere, and I wondered, too, given that the pattern
> occurred in Apache, if there was some degree of areal connection.  A
> number of Apache groups seem to have western Plains historical
roots.
>
> It's also interesting that paleness and indistinctness seem to
feature as
> a dimension in Siouan systems otherwise, in connection with the
sabe/s^abe
> and ska/saN pairs, to give them in their Omaha-Ponca form.
>
>
>
>
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