Fw: paduka identity

[Mark-Awakuni Swetland]

Aloha All,
Perhaps someone can assist this fellow in his inquiry about the Patoka/Paduca, please! My response was limited to the Fletcher and La Flesche source.
Mahalo!
Mark Awakuni-Swetland

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Barry Haglan 
To: Mark-Awakuni Swetland 
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: paduka identity


mark, I pestered old John White about the paduca thing, and he said that when he was going through stuff on the Miami tribe, he kept running into the term Patoka. There's a river in Indiana named the Patoka River, in the old Miami-Wea-Piankashaw stomping grounds. He pretty much insisted on the meaning as slave by the Miamis, and said he thought the whole William Clark thing of naming the city of Paduca was complete B.S. I have the George Hyde article on Paduca identity, but the first page is missing, which would be the part before the migration across the Mississippi. Maybe we'll never know for sure, but I think it could be the stuff of a juicy manga comic or a screenplay.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark-Awakuni Swetland 
  To: Barry Haglan 
  Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:03 PM
  Subject: Re: paduka identity


  Barry,
  the Paduka are usually glossed as the contemporary Comache. The Comanche are a relatively newly formed group of Shoshoni bands emerging from the Great Basin onto the Southern Great Plains. It is my understanding that they are classed linguistically as Uto-Aztecan, not Dhegiha/Siouan

  This does not seem to match the information and references you are citing. I cannot suggest an alternative persective to the Mississippi valley appearance or the "slave" aspect.

  In Fletcher and La Flesche "The Omaha Tribe" 1911:49, 79-80, 88 the Padouca are noted as follows: The Ponca reportedly encountered the Padouca on their buffalo hunts near the Rocky Mountains. The Ponca and Padouca battled until a Ponca killed a Padouca warrior, following which the Padouca sued for peace.

  Omaha were reported as knowing the Padouca in their western-most territory, and knowing of a Padouca village on the Dismal River.

  Mark Awakuni-Swetland
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Barry Haglan 
    To: mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu 
    Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:35 AM
    Subject: paduka identity


    dr. a-s, my friend John White, a student of the Illinois-speaking tribes, told me that the Paduka were a Dhegiha group that didn't cross the Mississippi until circa 1710. He said Paduka meant "slave" in Illinois-Miami, and both the Chickasaw and Illini raided them for fresh genetics. Have you ever heard of anyone calling themselves Paduka? The only thing I've seen is an old paper by George Hyde that leaves out a lot. Sounds like a good title for a Tarantino thriller...SEARCH  for the LOST PADUKAS!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/siouan/attachments/20050929/c4472768/attachment.htm>