Fw: Biloxi ball game

Tue Jan 16 07:48:39 UTC 2007

For some reason this got sent to Carolyn alone instead of to the whole list.

Kathy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kathleen Shea 
To: cqcqcq1 at earthlink.net 
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: Biloxi ball game

The name for shinny (game) in Ponca is ttabe'gasi (' is accents the preceding syllable here), rendered "hitting that ball" by my consultant:  ttabe' 'ball,' gasi 'to hit, hitting.'  James Howard in _The Ponca Tribe_ (p. 126) describes the ball and how it's made--out of deerskin and stuffed with horsehair, with certain traditional markings on it.  I've never seen one up close, even though I've watched games.  It's about the size of a football, but more spherical.

Kathy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Carolyn Quintero 
  To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
  Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:59 PM
  Subject: RE: Biloxi ball game

  From the last Osage speaker that I consulted with:

  ohkíce  N   1 goal, 2 the curved stick used to play kaçíni 'shinny'  (03/23/95/FH/pc) .  This stick is for hitting the ball made out of buckskin in the game of shinny which was declining in popularity in the early 20th century, circa 1916. 

                        La Flesche p. 171: ohkíce  LF orig. <u-Ði´-dse> a goal, the goals in the game of shinny 

  kaçíni N  shinny, a team ball game played with a buckskin ball and sticks on a field with goals at opposite ends

  (kas^i'ni)

  Carolyn Quintero

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  From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu [mailto:owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu] On Behalf Of Kathleen Shea
  Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:54 PM
  To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
  Subject: Re: Biloxi ball game

  The Poncas in Oklahoma play shinny on four Sundays in April, an old tradition.  It's kind of like field hockey, with curved sticks and two teams with goals at opposite ends of the field.  The ball is special and kept by the Martin Blueback family, the head of which officiates at the games.  Most of the players (all men, but of all ages) make their own sticks.  There are rules, but it can be a very rough game.  Uncle Parrish (my consultant) told me that at one time (within his memory) the Gives Water family held a shinny game every year that could be very rough, with the brothers-in-law playing against the sisters-in-law, but that's the only instance I've heard of women playing.

  Kathy

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Rankin, Robert L 

    To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 

    Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:01 PM

    Subject: RE: Biloxi ball game

    Mrs. Rowe talked about the Kaws playing "shinny".  I think Justin mentioned that the Kaws and Osages had recently competed.  Maybe he can fill you in.

    Bob

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    From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of David Kaufman
    Sent: Sun 1/14/2007 3:05 PM
    To: Siouan List
    Subject: Biloxi ball game

    Hi all, and Happy New Year.

    Since there are terms in the Biloxi dictionary for a ball and ball club, I'm wondering if they played the Choctaw/Cherokee game Stickball, apparently the precursor of La Crosse.  I'm basing this on cultural contact, such as the Biloxi borrowing the idea of the blowgun from the Choctaw.  Or, was there some type of ball game played among other Siouan tribes?  

    The Maya, of course, had their own type of ball game, which apparently usually ended in the sacrificing (beheading) of one or the other team.  I haven't acquainted myself with all its rules although they apparently couldn't use their arms or legs in touching the ball and they apparently had some type of hoop they could put the ball through for extra points (a la basketball).  I don't think the Mayan ball game had a North American counterpart though, or did it?

    Any thoughts?

    Dave

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