A little (trilingual) fun!

Fri Jan 9 13:14:43 UTC 2009

Clive:  Báñi Pi umáñi ho.
Wiyuškiŋyaŋ Omakȟa Tȟečha!/Happy New Year!

As the translation of dialectal, colloquial speech into another language equivalent of similar colloquial speech, I will have to pass.  The conversation has a lot of cultural or better to say, particular group attitudes that just does not carry over into other cultures, albeit, humor is universal, but not everyone sees humor in the same light or in regard to the same subject areas.
Last year, (2008) I completed a full text translation of dialogs, conversations and subtitles of the documentary movie for a DVD auxiliary sound track "The Lost Nation: The Ioway."  Within the more commonplace discussions of tribal members, anthropologists, archeologists, historians, etc., I came across a good many notions, concepts, views for which there was no equivalent Baxoje Jiwere term.  In some cases, I was able to look at related languages (Winnebago, Lakota, Omaha, Osage) as to how they translated a word or concept.   Bob helped me realize that there are and always will be some words which must be brought into the speaker language, which defy any kind of an adequate translation.  
One word
in particular was especially troublesome.  The word "citizen" was used in a statement by one Ioway Elder.  In reference to WWI, and the volunteer recruitment of Native soldiers, he said (not an exact quote):  "A lot of  those boys went over there, and they weren't even citizens".  You can surmise in this statement, the term "citizen" has more than the typical significance for the Native People, in contrast to the typical country citizen.  Without getting into much history,  it took an earlier court ruling in the case of a Ponca ("Chief" another anglo invented word) for Natives Americans to be viewed as "human beings", and another 1920s court to declare that Native Americans to be "citizens" of the U.S.  So the word has a unique view from the Native standpoint, which is usually lost on the general public.
>>From the Native view, when asked "What are you?" the reply is, at least among more traditional persons with cultural teachings (which is not the case for many younger generation, who edge towards not knowing "who/ what" they are)  will have a reply:  "I am Ponca ( or Ioway, Kiowa, Lakota, etc.), and then followed by "I'm Bear Clan (or whatever clan or sub group."  Elders told that in the past, the Clans had sub groups, but that is well over a hundred years and more when such division were known.  In trying to approach an equivalent for this term "citizen" from a Native perspective, I recalled all of this from the Ioway Otoe Elders, and confirmed the same with Mark who asked the following questions of fluent Omaha speakers.  [Note: I do not have the exact Omaha words available at this writing, so I'll use the IOM words].

If you see someone who is not Native in appearance, What would you call them?
Ma^unke (white people); WashiThewe (black people).

And if these people in appearance, seem to be from some other country, other than the US, then how would you call them?
Ukihje (some other tribe).

The Ioway Elders shunned the mixing of English words into their speech, and frequently refused to translate such words or the sentence altogether.  For example, in the sentence,  "John went to town."  The Otoe Elder refused, saying in English:  "I cann't do that 'John'".  When reworded to say:  "White Horse went to town," the same Elder immediately responded, saying: "SúngeHga chína waré ke."  Again, knowing this, I left the word citizen in the Baxoje Jiwere translation irregardless: 

  A lot of them guys went to war when they weren’t even citizens.[1]  They weren’t citizens until June 1924.

GC:  Éda ichindoiñe  róhan   wagídotanñe  aráñena  “citizens”  híñe škúñinàšgun.    Báñi 1924da  Bí Xamóxra Šúwe aréna   “citizens” gašún  anáhehi ^ášgún.

[Literal:  (meaning unknown):   Then  young-men  a-lot  them-against-war-they    go-they-and  citizens they-are  not- they- it-seems;  Year  1924-during  Month Flower Small  (it)-is- when  -citizens   now  they-allow-(it)-make  it-seems]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1]  Note:  In as much as there is no known word for “citizen” in Báxoje, and no living fluent speakers to refer for a response, the question was put to fluent Omaha speakers, as to how they would say it.  Mark Awakuni Swetland replied in an Email on 6/3/08:  “I visited with (Omaha)…speakers…about…citizen inquiry.  The two ladies were not familiar with a term in Omaha that corresponds to the concept of citizen in the legal sence…use(d)…today.  They suggested (in Omaha) “people ~ person”, (and)…what “kind” of people/ person it was is… preceed… with… the ethnic identifiers available… Omaha person… White person.  The predisposition for self-identification is a mixed one.  Usually the tribal affiliation is first.  Some folks will identify their clan if they know it….   and… I have  rarely heard an Omaha person voluntarily state being an "American" unless in a venue where such rhetoric is expected (veteran activities usually).  I have never heard an Omaha person categorically state that s/he was NOT an American (citizen).  In suggesting the context of standing on a street corner and seeing two individuals approaching, one being obviously an "American citizen" and the other obviously from some other land, the speakers suggested the former would be a Wa'xe nia'shiNga  (White person) and the latter an ukki'tte -- other tribe/people.”  Similar sentiments have been expressed by various late Ioway Elders.  jgt.

Well now, Cleve, I know that all the above was not what you had in mind in your contributed writing on dialectic peer humor, but at least it is a responce for whatever value you have for it.

Jimm 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Clive Bloomfield 
  To: SIOUAN LIST LIST 
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:16 PM
  Subject: Re : A little (trilingual) fun!

  Happy New Year, all! :D

  And now for a little party fun - with, (hopefully) at least some Siouan relevance (Lakota).

  No disrespect intended, naturally, just a little linguistic light-heartedness & entertainment over the "silly" season - after all, as they said in the classics, 
  "Nemo omnibus horis sapit", (approx. "laughter is the most salubrious riposte to life's dirty left" [Veramente -traduttore traditore!]), am I right? ;)

  Hey Anthony, how about a Geordie version? Bruce, what about a Scots, or maybe Cockney version? Dave, U.S. West Coast, or Biloxi? Omaha-Ponca version? 
  Jimm, Osage, Ioway, Kansa, Quapaw? Mandan, Hidatsa, Crow? Winnebago? Catawba, Oto, Tutelo?   Rumsien Ohlone, Dave? Improved Lakota?

  DRAMATIS PERSONAE : 

  2 Aussie blokes, Chaz (Charlie), and "Bluey" his best mate (ubiquitous red-haired male personage; orig. Christian name irrevocably lost in mists of time); 
  1 fun-loving Aussie sheila Bluey's better half; (definitely a good-sport); 
  1 funster U.S. citizen, Marvin (indeterminate dialect); 1 party-loving Lakota.

  AETATES VITAE (Quot annos hi nati sunt? What ages?) : 

  Young at heart .

  LOCUS ACTIONIS : 

  Somewhere "Down Under" : usually  on the back patio, 'round the swimming-pool; (ankle-biters & grandkids long tucked-up in bed).

  TEMPUS ANNI : Commonly mid-summer twilit late evening. 

  TEMERATURA : vesperi magnopere aestuosa (hic enim saepe aestuat) - often abt. 96 to 110 degrees F.

  Aussie :            [=G'day blokes & sheilas! Geez,  ripper party, fair dinkum!]

  American :     [=Hi, gang! Hot dog, this is one bad-aassss party - yessirrree!]

  Lakh^o'ta :    [=Hau mita'kuye thechi'h^ilapi kiN! A'wichakh^eya, le' kichi'chopi kin li'lah^ciN wo'imag^ag^a s'ele'!]

  Aussie :           [='Ay Chaz me ole china, pull your finger out, there's a good feller : just chuck another dingo on the barbie, willya son?]

  American :     [=Hey there, Chuck ole buddy, get the lead out & toss another coyote on the B-B-Q there, woncha? Attaboy!]

  Lakh^o'ta :    [=Ho' wo, Charlie kh^ola', akhe' shuNgma'nitu wanz^i' s^paN kta cha oche'thi kiN aka'N au'N wet^o'!]

  Aussie :               [=No worries in the world, mate! Beauty-bottler, cobber!]

  American :        [=Sure thing, pal! Like, totally awesome, bro!]

  Lakh^o'ta  :      [=Oha'N chekpa'! ChiNto'k? Li'la chaNtéwas^teya echa'chicicuN kte, kh^ola', he'  i'cat'a khili' kte tkh^a' ! 

  Aussie sheila :                                                   [=Crickey, sport, this 'ere's flamin' grouse tucker, eh, Bluey!]

  American babe :                                               [=Hey bigboy, this grub sure kicks ass, ain't that the truth!]

  Lakh^o'ta th^awi'chiNcala kiN   :             [=Ith^o', wicha'h^ca, le' wo'yute kiN paNh^ya' oyu'l was^te' la'h^cake le!

  Aussie :          [='Struth Ruth, is it what, pet!!]

  American :    [=You better believe it, babydoll!!]

  Lakh^o'ta :   [=WaN, winu'h^ca is^ta th^oth^o' , ta'ku ehe' kiN he'chetu kiN he' chet'u'Nwagla s^ni yelo'!!]

  P.S. I  hope my Lakhota is at least marginally better than my American dialects! I suspect not. ;)

  _____________________________________________
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/siouan/attachments/20090109/9cf2fdc8/attachment.htm>