Dakota cognate??

[Catherine Rudin]

Thanks to all who answered.  Clearly it's "equivalent" but not "cognate"
in the normal sense, as Bob said...  I guess I've been seeing mostly
cognates that are actually cognate and/or not paying much attention. 
:-)  C.

>>> Rory M Larson <rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu> 03/15/10 5:02 PM >>>
Bob - Yes, it's s^ukka.  You should be able to see the slip via the link

Catherine included.

I just looked up optaye in Riggs.  It's the Dakota word for a flock of 
birds, a herd of animals, or a company of people.  Dorsey has included
it 
here because it matches the Omaha word in meaning, not because it is 
cognate.

Justin - Omaha has the word s^uga meaning 'thick' too.  That would be 
cognate to your s^óga.  Can we make any sense out of those names 
translating s^ókka as 'flock'/'herd'/'company'?

Rory





"Justin McBride" <jmcbride at kawnation.com> 
Sent by: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
03/15/2010 04:05 PM
Please respond to
siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU


To
<siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU>
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Subject
Re: Dakota cognate??






I can't speak for Dakotan, Catherine, but to answer Bob's question, JOD 
does 
have a few KS entries that may be either cognate or at least somewhat 
related. In his personal names slips, he lists the female name Cú-ka mí 
[s^ókka miN] and the male name Cu-ká-mi [s^okkámiN], but offers only an 
unhelpful translation of the former, 'Cu-ka female.' In his dictionary 
slip 
file, there's also cú-ga [s^óga], which he defines as 'thick; dense.' I 
can't say for sure why KS would voice a stop that OP doesn't, though, so

maybe that last one's not related after all, but the semantics seem to 
match 
up.

-jtm

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
To: <siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: Dakota cognate??


No way.  But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many
of 

his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word.  They 
should 
probably be called something like "equivalents".  For the other 3 or 4 
Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're 
usually 
nearly identical.  Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off.  He 
gives 
a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some

term with a similar meaning.

Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription?  In 
other 
words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound?  If it's
"ch" 
then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look
like. 
"Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious.  Does he 
give 
Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it?

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin
Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Dakota cognate??

Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the

Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does
it 
make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka?

Catherine

here's a link to the slip image
http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg