[Possible SPAM] Re: Terms for 'black' in MVS

Wed Apr 23 20:11:58 UTC 2014

He also has dirty (two spellings for it):  måh-chrih (ch with the point of the tongue)

and  måchré (ch guttural)

           xrí; xrín  v.i.  cry, be sore; be upset, angered; ooze, run, fester; be fatty, gummy; mucous, pus; drool; wound; sore.   axrí  v.t.  cry for s.o., s.t.   Šé xáñe axrí ke,  He is crying for an apple.   Ihún axrí máñi ke,  He is always crying for his mother.   éxri [a +gi + xri]  v.t.  gum up, gum shut; apply wax.  **SEE: thrí; wasgéwe. [W. hasiriré (ooze out); hosarag (ooze out; flow slowly); Os. xthí (fester); íxthi (saliva); íxthitu (spit); L. xní; D. xdí (sore, raw; a running sore; raw place].   póxriiñe (I.) ~ póxriiŋe [pá + uxrí + iße] (O.)  n.  screech owl (lit: “little sore head”).

        **   xríge  n.  cry baby. 

           xrínge  v.i.  growl; snarl. 

          xríx^e  v.i.  get dirty, soil; dirty up; deface by writing on.  **SEE: théwahi; irúthewara. 

            xrítan (DOR)  adj.  cruel, bad, wicked. [It is said of someone who causes unnecessary pain or trouble]: (I am..., hinxrítan; you.are..., rixrítan; we are..., wawáxrítanwi; they are..., waxrítanñe). (OmP. xthítu). 

From: Campbell, Sky 
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 11:30 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Terms for 'black' in MVS

I’d thought of the idea for red but he lists it as:

schu-djä̇

There we have an “sch-“ (with no mention of guttural) versus his “ch-“ in the other term (which he notes is guttural).  He also has “må-chudjé” for ashes and “åchudjeh” for coal.

Maximilian does have this term for “dark”:

ohånsä̇ (an French)

That’s a dead-ringer for our modern form (just swap out the s).

He also has dirty (two spellings for it):

måh-chrih (ch with the point of the tongue)

and

måchré (ch guttural)

Looking at his Omaha terms, he has that same term for dirty as well (with an extra –chri added to have “mån-chri-chri”).

I know that “sewe” used to be used for black, but I am curious when it started to be used for brown (or perhaps it always ways and it just wasn’t documented (or I haven’t found it yet)).

Sky Campbell, B. A.

Language Director

Otoe-Missouria Tribe

580-723-4466 ext. 111

sky at omtribe.org

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm Goodtracks
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 10:14 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: [Possible SPAM] Re: Terms for 'black' in MVS
Importance: Low

Below, the word Maximilian gave for brown is “suje” (red).  This is confirmed by the late Elders, and was used in the term for brown bear “Múnje séwe.”  On the other term:

cho-djé (j French; ch guttural)

uhádhe (shawdow; shade; dark as at night fall).

From: Sky Campbell 

Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:00 PM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: Terms for 'black' in MVS

This is pretty cool :).

Maximilian gives the Otoe word for black as "sewe" and notes that the Otoe language doesn't have a word for brown.  Here is the entry for brown:

chudje (ch guttural; e distinctly pronounced); i.e., dark, smoky, they have no word for brown

Now this looks very close to "xoje" (gray).  Maximilian has this for gray:

cho-djé (j French; ch guttural)

I'm thinking this is the same word.  He does seem to flip-flop between o and u in some of the same words.  But I'm still curious if the use of u is going another route.

dirty (clothes)  adj.  thewára; ithéwara; maxri (max): (I am…, hinthéwera; you are…, rithéwera; we two are…, wáwathéwera; we all are…, wáwathéwerawi; they two are…, théwerawi; they all are…, théwerañe).   dirty, deface (by scratching, etc.)  v.t.  igíthewara: (I…, ihéthewara; you…, iréthewara; we…, híngithewarawi; they…, igíthewarañe).   Máhi ^únna nóbrathge chí igíthewarañe ke,  They defaced the frame house wíth a knife.   dirty, soil, deface from use  v.t.  irúthewára.   dirty water  n.  ñí úšoje; ñúšoje (i.).   Nemaha River (in Nebraska and Kansas)  n.  Ñímáha (lit.: “water dirty”).   dirty with mouth (s.t.)  v.t.  iráthewara.   dirty with feet ~ by walking on  v.t.  ináthewara.   dirty up, soil, deface by writing on  v.t.  wathéwe; wašéwe.   get dirty  v.i.  xríx^e; théwahi; irúthewara; iwáthewara; ibáthewara.   dirty; soiled; second-hand (from short use)  adj.  thewára; théware (dor).

This looks to be "owase/uwase" and this might be a long shot but I'm wondering if the -se at the end might be related to the sewe/sebe idea for shadowy.

Sky

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Rory Larson
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:37 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Terms for 'black' in MVS

Thanks, Jimm.  That’s pretty much what I was thinking.  I believe the original Siouan sound here was /š/, and some speakers, especially the Otoe-Missouria, have shifted it forward to something more like /s/.  At the same time, the original Siouan /s/ has also shifted forward in IOM to something like /þ/, “thorn”, or what we write “th”.  So Omaha “s” would correspond to IOM “th”, and IOM “s” or “sh” would correspond to Omaha “sh”.

According to the CSD, we seem to have about four or five different words for ‘black’ in Siouan, which are all related to each other by a couple of sound alternations.  First, we have alternation in the main vowel between /e/ and /a/, which gives us two alternative forms of ‘black’:

          *sepe

          *sape

Within MVS, Hochank and IOM chose *sepe as their basic word for ‘black’, while Dakotan and Dhegiha chose *sape.  However, Dhegiha at least preserved *sepe as an alternate ‘black’ term in rare cases.  Bob Rankin found a séwe term for ‘black’ in Quapaw, and in Omaha the name of one of our speakers is Mi-sebe, meaning “Dark of the Moon”.  She and her sister made it very clear to us that the sebe part of this is not the ‘black’ word, sábe.  They say that sébe is its own word meaning “shadowy”, and in this case refers to the part of the moon that is dark when the moon is not full.  I don’t know that I’ve ever run into the term outside of this case in Omaha, so perhaps it is preserved there mainly because it appears in a name.

Second, these two ‘black’ words were both given alternates via Siouan fricative ablaut.  The initial /s/ could be changed to /š/ to give the idea of an “off-black”, or “dark”:

          *sepe          =>               *šepe

          *sape          =>               *šape

In Dhegiha, the *šape term means ‘dark (colored)’, and in Dakotan it means ‘dirty’, both in contrast to *sape, meaning ‘black’.  In IOM and Hochank, the *šepe term means ‘dark’, ‘suntanned’ or ‘brown’ in contrast to *sepe, ‘black’.  So we get a comparative matrix that looks something like this:

                    ‘black’                  ‘off-black’

          MVS *sepe          =>     *šepe

          Ho     séep             =>     šéep (‘dark’, ‘suntanned’)

          IOM  thewe           =>     sewe or šewe (‘brown’)

          OP     sebe (‘shadowy’)

          MVS *sape          =>     *šape 

          OP     sabe            =>     šabe (‘dark’)

          Da     sapA           =>     šapA (‘dirty’)

Best,

Rory

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm Goodtracks
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 3:15 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"

Rory:  They are both correct “séwe” or “šéwe”.  The difference is that the OM tend to pronounce a “s” while the Ioway tend to pronounce a ‘’š ~ sh’’.  The distinction is not clear cut, as there have been informants who tend to use the ‘’š ~ sh’’ at times and in certain words.  Maybe once upon a time, it was an OM vs. I difference.  So then, in the dictionary, such a word as we have here maybe be heard to be pronounced   “séwe” or “šéwe”.   Now Dorsey also uses the “s” and “sh.”  The former usually represents the “th” while the latter represents the “s” sound.  

From: Rory Larson 

Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:54 AM

To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu 

Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"

Jimm, is that “séwe” or “šéwe”?  I looked it up in your dictionary, and found it under “šéwe”.  Or is there no difference between /s/ and /š/ in IOM?

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] On Behalf Of Jimm Goodtracks
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 9:16 PM
To: SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Old Otoe-Missouria term for "bear"

I am in agreement with all said.  May I add two things. Dorsey’s “ñ” in his text is equal to the “ng” as in “sing.”  So in lieu of he Ioway “-iñe,” it would be the Otoe/Missouria “-inge.”  Also, IOM does have a cognate to Omaha “sebe” which is “séwe” (brown).  I have never known it to cover the meaning of “shawdowed,” as Rory says exists in Omaha. 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. Due to Yahoo's DMARC policy: listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com 

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. Due to Yahoo's DMARC policy: listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com

-- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. Due to Yahoo's DMARC policy: listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com 

     -- Manage your subscription at http://listserv.unl.edu. Due to Yahoo's DMARC policy: listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com 

--
Manage your subscription at  http://listserv.unl.edu.
Due to Yahoo's DMARC policy: listserv.unl.edu lists do not accept incoming email from Yahoo.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/siouan/attachments/20140423/29e46f0c/attachment.htm>