major bookstore chain--uggh!

Thu Feb 17 00:22:27 UTC 2000

Yes, and Auslan is treated and talked/written about as a LOTE (sometimes CLOTE -
Community Language Other Than English) in several curriculum contexts in various
states and official documents.

Adam Schembri wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Yes, I see your point of course, and I understand the reasoning. In the
> Australian education system, we do actually talk about LOTE (language(s)
> other than English) teachers, LOTE courses etc. Like the USA and Canada, we
> are an immigrant nation, with large numbers of "foreign" languages used here
> (Arabic, Cantonese, Vietnamese, Italian etc). We also have a large number of
> indigenous "foreign" languages (Warlpiri, Arrente, Pitjantjatjara etc). Thus
> the acronym "LOTE" is actually starting to catch on for this very reason.
> It's awkward, I know, but it's preferable to "foreign".
>
> Adam Schembri
>
> >From: Mark Mandel <Mark_Mandel at DRAGONSYS.COM>
> >Reply-To: "For the discussion of linguistics and signed languages."
> >      <SLLING-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
> >To: SLLING-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
> >Subject: Re: major bookstore chain--uggh!
> >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:53:17 -0500
> >
> >Adam Schembri writes:
> >
> > >>>
> >What I don't understand is some people's insistence that ASL books ought to
> >be in the "foreign language" section of bookstores. Given that ASL evolved
> >entirely in the USA, and may actually result from a mixture of LSF and
> >Martha's Vineyard Sign Language (an older sign language that had been used
> >in the USA for several generations), it seems to me that ASL is only
> >slightly more "foreign" in North America than English!
> ><<<
> >
> >The problem is that there's no other convenient way in English to refer to
> >"languages other than English". Would you also object to finding Navajo and
> >Cherokee dictionaries in the "foreign language" section? Like English,
> >bookstores don't have a category for "languages other than English but not
> >foreign". Offhand I can think of only a few alternatives:
> >
> >1. Put them in with "grammars and dictionaries", alongside books about
> >English
> >for English-speakers. Obviously unacceptable to us.
> >
> >2. Put them in with books about codes and signaling systems, if you have
> >such a
> >section. Also bad.
> >
> >3. Make a new section and call it "sign language". When the SLLING-L crowd
> >descends on you for assuming and implying that all "sign language" is the
> >same
> >language  ;-)\  , point out  that you only have about five titles in this
> >section -- not enough to even justify a separate section -- and they're all
> >about American Sign Language or (natural or artificial) pidgin forms
> >thereof.
> >
> >I'm not saying I agree with the implications of the categorization, but I
> >don't
> >think there's any question of the reason for it
> >
> >-- Mark A. Mandel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Adam Schembri <acschembri at HOTMAIL.COM> on 02/15/2000 07:30:34 PM
> >
> >Please respond to "For the discussion of linguistics and signed languages."
> >       <SLLING-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
> >
> >To:   SLLING-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
> >cc:    (bcc: Mark Mandel/Dragon Systems USA)
> >Subject:  Re: major bookstore chain--uggh!
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm not sure why you think the term "sign dictionary" is an oxymoron since
> >a
> >dictionary may simply be an alphabetically ordered reference book (i.e.,
> >the
> >Dictionary of Biography). Perhaps you mean that they really should be
> >listed
> >as ASL-English dictionaries, or something of this nature.
> >
> >Some have argued that the term "dictionary" ought not be applied to sign
> >language reference books, and that a distinction can be made between books
> >such as the BSL/English dictionary edited by Brien (which list signs
> >according to handshapes, and gives English equivalents for BSL signs and
> >then also provides definitions in English of these equivalents) or the
> >Auslan dictionary by Johnston (which list signs according to handshapes and
> >attempts to define signs in English and provide, where possible, English
> >equivalents) and other books (such as Sternberg or Costello's reference
> >books for ASL) as glossaries. I have some sympathy with this view.
> >
> >What I don't understand is some people's insistence that ASL books ought to
> >be in the "foreign language" section of bookstores. Given that ASL evolved
> >entirely in the USA, and may actually result from a mixture of LSF and
> >Martha's Vineyard Sign Language (an older sign language that had been used
> >in the USA for several generations), it seems to me that ASL is only
> >slightly more "foreign" in North America than English!
> >
> >Adam Schembri
> >
> > >From: "Karlin, Ben" <MFKARLB at MAIL.DMH.STATE.MO.US>
> > >Reply-To: "For the discussion of linguistics and signed languages."
> > >      <SLLING-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
> > >To: SLLING-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
> > >Subject: Re: major bookstore chain--uggh!
> > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:46:00 -0600
> > >
> > >I suspect that the practice comes from the history of "Sign Language
> > >Dictionaries" being a principal source of sign instruction. (Isn't a
> >"Sign
> > >Dictionary" an oxymoron?  Think about it.)
> > >
> > >A related question that comes to mind, haven't most of these books
> >actually
> > >been glossaries or lexicons?  Is my understanding of these terms wrong?
> > >
> > >Ben Karlin, St Louis MO
> > >  ----------
> > > > From: Petra Eccarius
> > > > To: SLLING-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
> > > > Subject: Re: major bookstore chain--uggh!
> > > > Date: Tuesday, 15 February, 2000 10:28AM
> > > >
> > > > The Barnes and Noble in Lafayette, Indiana (the closest
> > > > for Purdue University students) also puts their Sign
> > > > Language dictionaries, etc. in the reference section.
> > > > It struck me as odd as I know I _have_ seen them in the
> > > > foreign language section of other stores...
> > > >
> > > > ....petra
> > > >  --
> > > > Petra Eccarius
> > > > Graduate Student in Linguistics
> > > > Purdue University-West Laffayette
> > > > eccarius at purdue.edu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Linda Lee Lonning wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello everyone--
> > > > >
> > > > > An aside on how we see signed languages treated in
> > > > terms of their
> > > > > recognition in their placement in libraries and even
> > > > in bookstores.  (I
> > > > > read the ISO one initial email realllly quickly so
> > > > excuse me if I'm not
> > > > > capturing the essence of what ISO is exactly used
> > > > for.)
> > > > >
> > > > > It has always rubbed me the wrong way as I peruse my
> > > > area bookstores here
> > > > > in Milwaukee (I'm talking specifically about our
> > > > Barnes and Noble chain
> > > > > here) to see ASL  **NOT** in the section for foreign
> > > > languages (in the
> > > > > case of ASL, and many other languages being present,
> > > > please excuse the
> > > > > reference to "foreign" in this case...but you see my
> > > > point)...but they
> > > > > place them in the *reference section (with the
> > > > dictionaries, after all,
> > > > > you can "learn" sign language by just memorizing a
> > > > bunch of pictures,
> > > > > right??  Uhhh!  ...OR I also see sign language books
> > > > placed by the
> > > > > enlarged-print books!  (After all, that's what sign
> > > > language is, right?
> > > > > An auxillary "device" or mechanism for communication,
> > > > right??
> > > > > Double-uhhh!!)
> > > > >
> > > > > I've asked personel at each book store what their
> > > > rationale is for the
> > > > > placement of sign language books where they are and
> > > > explained that it
> > > > > would more fairly placed at least with the "foreign"
> > > > languages.  I've
> > > > > submitted a feedback card to their regional or
> > > > corporate office (where
> > > > > ever that one was supposed to go)...NO response at
> > > > all.  I was told I
> > > > > should write something like their regional
> > > > headquarters, etc.  Wow.  How
> > > > > customer-friendly (?!)  BUT I'm told, the placement
> > > > of media for Barnes
> > > > > and Noble is decided higher up.
> > > > >
> > > > > I encourage folks to stop in their local
> > > > bookstores/chains and check-out
> > > > > where sign language/Deaf culture books are placed as
> > > > well.  Let me know
> > > > > what you find-- ;) .
> > > > >
> > > > > Linda L. Lonning, BS, CI & CT
> > > > > University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee--Part-time Staff
> > > > Interpreter
> > > > > Community-based Interpreter with 3 Area Agencies
> > > >
> >
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--
Professor Des Power, Director
Centre for Deafness Studies and Research, and
Language Australia, Centre for Deafness and Communication  Studies
Faculty of Education
Griffith University, QLD 4111
Australia

Tel:  (617) 3875 5654
Fax:  (617) 3875 5924
URL: http://www.edn.gu.edu.au/general/cdsr/home.htm