gender and noun classification

[Nobukatsu Minoura]

Dear Inge,

Thank you for the clarification on many of the points because of which I
thought comparing classifiers of sign languages to Bantu noun classes was
not readily plausible.

on 7/2/02 8:24 PM, Zwitserlood, Inge at Inge.Zwitserlood at let.uu.nl wrote:
> Ingeborg and I suggest that classifiers (viz. the meaningful hand
> configurations that appear on verbs of motion, location and existence) in
> NGT are gender markers, similar to those in Bantu, NOT the same.

Well understood.

> (In recent literature there is no longer a distinction between
> gender and noun class, see Corbett 1999 I think)

(Thank you for the reference.)

I did not suggest to distinguish between gender and noun classes.  They are
differentiated in older literature merely because of the number of the
categories.  So I am not reluctant to call them all gender.  I rather
suggested noun classification, which is present in sign languages, to be
distinguished from gender because a noun in a sign language can sometimes
"belong" to several "classes" and also because the "class" is marked
typically only on one word in a clause, namely the predicate.  It is more
similar to (noun) classificatory verbs of Athabaskan languages (to some
extent) and to noun classifiers on numerals in many Asian languages and
elsewhere (to lesser extent).  You are already aware of this, so we should
just look into this from both directions.

By the way, sometimes the noun can be absent from the clause but understood
from the context in languages with noun classifiers just like in sign
languages.

shetl'ach'iinkaay (Upper Tanana Athabaskan)
she- tl'a-     ch'-   iin- kaa                       -y
1sIO giving-to indefO 2sS  CL:handle^obj^in^a^vessel imperf
'lit. give me something (in a vessel)' = 'give me whisky/beer/etc.'

"kaa" is a classificatory verb stem.  "tl'a-" is not a verb but just a bound
postposition which takes the first person singular indirect object here.  It
gives the classificatory verb the meaning of "giving."

ippai yarimasyoo ka? (spoken Japanese)
ip  pai       yar -imas -yoo       ka
one CL:vessel do  polite hortative y/n-q
'lit. shall we do one cup?' = 'shall we drink (alcohol)?'

(No, I am not alcoholic!)

In the following JSL example, the classifier has more concrete meaning and
the referent cannot appear as a separate noun in the clause:

me world travel hate; CL:plane-down
'I hate to travel abroad (because) planes fall down'

Can a similar example found in a language with gender?

In my humble opinion, classes in gender languages form a closed system.  You
cannot add a new class easily.  I.e. the number of the classes usually
remains constant.  On the other hand, "classes" in languages with noun
classification form a quasi-open system.  E.g. when a new means of
transportation comes around, a sign language may add a new classifier for
it.  (Athabaskan classificatory verbs form a closed system, so it is
different.<hmmmmm>  On the other hand, Japanese numeral classifiers form an
open system.)

> So for instance a cow (that may
> usually be represented by a gender marker for animals), dressed up and
> acting as a human being, can be represented by a female gender marker.

Is this in a particular Bantu language?

> We have to be careful comparing the classifiers in signed languages with
> classificatory verb stems in Athabaskan languages, as already stated by
> several researchers.

We have to be careful comparing the classifiers in sign languages to gender
systems in Bantu languages.  But I have not written this in any published
papers!!

> But the case of Koyukon Athabaskan gender prefixes is
> interesting and I will certainly look into that (thanks for the reference!)

You're welcome.

Best regards,

Nobukatsu "Nobu" Minoura
Linguistics
Tokyo University of Foreign Studies