gender and noun classification

[Inge Zwitserlood]

Dear Nobu,

Just a couple more points:

>> (In recent literature there is no longer a distinction between
>> gender and noun class, see Corbett 1999 I think)
>
>(Thank you for the reference.)
Oops. It was Corbett 1991, his book "Gender".
>
>I did not suggest to distinguish between gender and noun classes.  They are
>differentiated in older literature merely because of the number of the
>categories.  So I am not reluctant to call them all gender.  I rather
>suggested noun classification, which is present in sign languages, to be
>distinguished from gender because a noun in a sign language can sometimes
>"belong" to several "classes" and also because the "class" is marked
>typically only on one word in a clause, namely the predicate.  It is more
>similar to (noun) classificatory verbs of Athabaskan languages (to some
>extent) and to noun classifiers on numerals in many Asian languages and
>elsewhere (to lesser extent).  You are already aware of this, so we should
>just look into this from both directions.
As far as I can tell, the (verbal) classification systems we know in sign
languages and numeral classification in Asian languages) are both called
"classifier systems" because of the possible variation, whereas
classification in gender/noun class systems is considered a many-to-one
relationship: a noun "belongs" only to one gender/noun class. (However, I'm
not too sure about that as you may have noticed)

>By the way, sometimes the noun can be absent from the clause but understood
>from the context in languages with noun classifiers just like in sign
>languages.
>
>shetl'ach'iinkaay (Upper Tanana Athabaskan)
>she- tl'a-     ch'-   iin- kaa                       -y
>1sIO giving-to indefO 2sS  CL:handle^obj^in^a^vessel imperf
>'lit. give me something (in a vessel)' = 'give me whisky/beer/etc.'
>
>"kaa" is a classificatory verb stem.  "tl'a-" is not a verb but just a bound
>postposition which takes the first person singular indirect object here.  It
>gives the classificatory verb the meaning of "giving."
>
>ippai yarimasyoo ka? (spoken Japanese)
>ip  pai       yar -imas -yoo       ka
>one CL:vessel do  polite hortative y/n-q
>'lit. shall we do one cup?' = 'shall we drink (alcohol)?'
>
>(No, I am not alcoholic!)

>In the following JSL example, the classifier has more concrete meaning and
>the referent cannot appear as a separate noun in the clause:
>
>me world travel hate; CL:plane-down
>'I hate to travel abroad (because) planes fall down'
>
>Can a similar example found in a language with gender?
I don't know... I think in NGT the noun can occur as a separate noun. But
then, the sign for plane is very similar to that for a plan flying,
especially the handshape. Furthermore when this handshape occurs on a
predicate of motion, it almost always refers to planes. Thus, the referent
is very clear from the verb + classifier alone. Signers might think it
fussy to specify the referent by a separate noun.
Is this the same in NS, or do the sign and the motion predicate have
different handshapes?

>In my humble opinion, classes in gender languages form a closed system.  You
>cannot add a new class easily.  I.e. the number of the classes usually
>remains constant.  On the other hand, "classes" in languages with noun
>classification form a quasi-open system.  E.g. when a new means of
>transportation comes around, a sign language may add a new classifier for
>it.  (Athabaskan classificatory verbs form a closed system, so it is
>different.<hmmmmm>  On the other hand, Japanese numeral classifiers form an
>open system.)
Do you have any reference to that? I thought both gender classes and noun
classes form closed classes, where hardly any new class pops up, whereas
classifiers are supposed to be open systems.
The NGT classifier systems seems to form a closed class as well, which has
been one of the considerations for comparing the system to a gender/noun
class system. So maybe the Athabaskan system is more similar to the sign
language classifier system than you thought... does it hold for the
classificatory prefixes a well?

>> So for instance a cow (that may
>> usually be represented by a gender marker for animals), dressed up and
>> acting as a human being, can be represented by a female gender marker.

>Is this in a particular Bantu language?
Hmmm, this is an example I have discussed with several people who know
about languages with noun classes, not about a particular Bantu language,
sorry. Actually, I have seen an example of a change of gender in a (Dutch)
book, where a transvestite (obviously male) is consequently referred to as
"she/her". Maybe we should send Bantu linguists out in the field and ask
how abnormal referents are classified, so we have some examples.

>> We have to be careful comparing the classifiers in signed languages with
>> classificatory verb stems in Athabaskan languages, as already stated by
>> several researchers.
>
>We have to be careful comparing the classifiers in sign languages to gender
>systems in Bantu languages.  But I have not written this in any published
>papers!!
Of course! We have to be careful in comparing anyway, especially sign
languages to spoken languages! The point is that one is apt to compare
structures one sees in the language investigated to one's own native
language or a language one knows rather well, that statements are made
about these structures without taking into account that there are lots of
languages about that are different in many ways, the structures of which
match the structures in the investaged language (partly) better than the
ones we know...

Best,
Inge



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Inge Zwitserlood, UiL OTS
Trans 10                                     Fort Orthenlaan 13
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inge.zwitserlood at let.uu.nl     izjo at knoware.nl
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