(rephrased) Two questions

[Fischer Susan]

I didn't see the original question, but another angle on this is that  
signed languages (at least urban sign languages) and some Athapaskan  
languages like Navaho  have *predicate* classifiers, which are  
attached to the verb; Japanese and Chinese have *numerical*  
classifiers, which are attach to numerals and are separate from the  
noun and the verb, and other languages (Swahili, etc.) have *nominal*  
classifiers, which are attached to the noun though they may also be  
expressed on the verb.  Grammatical gender (some languages have 2,  
others have 3, others have quite a few) may also bear some resemblance  
to nominal classifiers.  All of these types of classifiers classify  
nouns but where that classification is expressed differently.

Susan D. Fischer
Susan.Fischer at rit.edu
Center for Research on Language
UCSD



On Jun 26, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Dan Jinguji wrote:

> Here's a complete stab in the dark. I think it's because of the way  
> that they behave / are used.
>
> They are somewhat like the counter words used in a several  
> (actually, I think it's a number of) Asian languages. In fact, these  
> counter terms are typically called 'classifiers'. For example, in  
> Japanese, when I want to talk about the fact that there are kittens  
> in room, I would say something like 'room-in-topic, kitten exist',  
> if I wanted to say that there were three of them, 'room-in-topic,  
> kitten three-CL exist". Now, this word glossed as 'CL' ('hiki') does  
> not mean kitten, rather it is used when referring to (counting) any  
> relatively small animals. So, I could use the same word for mice,  
> ferrets, dogs, etc. There is a separate word ('tou') for large  
> animals, (not unlike talking about "14 head of cattle").
>
> Now, things get very interesting when we talk about ... say,  
> pencils. There is a classifier for long, thin things. It's also used  
> for shots (injections), logs, scrolls, trees. In that way, it's  
> rather like the "1" ASL classifier. It can be used to refer to any  
> long, thin thing. And, you'll notice that it cannot stand on it's  
> own. The noun must be introduced before, either through  
> conversational context, but generally by direct inclusion in the  
> discourse.
>
> Another example is "3" to mean vehicle. It does not mean, 'car' or  
> 'bus' or 'truck' or ... but once the noun has been introduced, it  
> can be used to represent it. Is this making any sense ... or am I  
> just blathering on.
>
> (rather than risk of blathering incomprehensibly ... I stop now ...  
> comments?)
>
> Dan
>
>
> From: charityh at COMCAST.NET
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 21:44
> To: slling-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Subject: [slling-l] (rephrased) Two questions
>
> Sorry, folks...
>
> Let me re-phrase my #2 question below.
>
> What i actually meant is could someone explain why noun classifiers  
> in ASL are classifiers and NOT a member of noun class? And i want an  
> explanation for vice versa as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Sarah
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: charityh at COMCAST.NET
> Got two questions here...
>
> 1) How old is English, counting Old English? I couldn't find this  
> information on Wikipedia.
>
> 2) Could someone give me examples of noun classifiers and noun  
> classes for ASL? To me, it seems as if some of today's discussed  
> classifiers in ASL are actually noun classes or vice versa, but i  
> may be wrong. By the way, would the agent marker in ASL (open & flat  
> hand, both hands, palms facing each other, moving down from upper  
> chest to lower torso) be placed in the noun class?
>
> Sarah
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