(rephrased) Two questions

[Adam Schembri]

Dan appears to be answering a question from 2007 - not sure what's  
going on here?!
Please note that Navaho does not actually have classifier  
constructions, as discussed in Engberg-Pedersen (1993) and Schembri  
(2003).
Best,
Adam
---
Adam C Schembri, PhD
Project Director, British Sign Language Corpus Project
DCAL Research Centre
University College London
49 Gordon Square London WC1H 0PD UK
www.dcal.ucl.ac.uk/team/adam_schembri.html
www.bslcorpusproject.org
www.slls.eu




On 29 Jul 2009, at 16:54, Fischer Susan wrote:

> I didn't see the original question, but another angle on this is  
> that signed languages (at least urban sign languages) and some  
> Athapaskan languages like Navaho  have *predicate* classifiers,  
> which are attached to the verb; Japanese and Chinese have  
> *numerical* classifiers, which are attach to numerals and are  
> separate from the noun and the verb, and other languages (Swahili,  
> etc.) have *nominal* classifiers, which are attached to the noun  
> though they may also be expressed on the verb.  Grammatical gender  
> (some languages have 2, others have 3, others have quite a few) may  
> also bear some resemblance to nominal classifiers.  All of these  
> types of classifiers classify nouns but where that classificat ion   
> ifferently.
>
> Susan D. Fischer
> Susan.Fischer at rit.edu
> Center for Research on Language
> UCSD
>
>
>
> On Jun 26, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Dan Jinguji wrote:
>
>> Here's a complete stab in the dark. I think it's because of the way  
>> that they behave / are used.
>>
>> T counter words used in a several (actually, I think it's a number  
>> of) Asian languages. In fact, these counter terms are typically  
>> called 'classifiers'. For example, in Japanese, when I want to talk  
>> about the fact that there are kittens in room, I would say  
>> something like 'room-in-topic, kitten exist', if I wanted to say  
>> that there were three of them, 'room-in-topic, kitten three-CL  
>> exist". Now, this word glossed as 'CL' ('hiki') does not mean  
>> kitten, rather it is used when referring to (counting) any  
>> relatively small animals. So, I could use the same word for mice,  
>> ferrets, dogs, etc. There is a separate word ('tou') for large  
>> animals, (not unlike talking about "14 head of cattle").
>>
>> Now, things get very interesting when we talk about ... say,  
>> pencils. There is a classifier for long, thin things. It's also  
>> used for shots (injec tions), that way, it's rather like the "1"  
>> ASL classifier. It can be used to refer to any long, thin thing.  
>> And, you'll notice that it cannot stand on it's own. The noun must  
>> be introduced before, either through conversational context, but  
>> generally by direct inclusion in the discourse.
>>
>> Another example is "3" to mean vehicle. It does not mean, 'car' or  
>> 'bus' or 'truck' or ... but once the noun has been introduced, it  
>> can be used to represent it. Is this making any sense ... or am I  
>> just blathering on.
>>
>> (rather than risk of blathering incomprehensibly ... I stop now ...  
>> comments?)
>> &nb r="#000080" size="2" face="Comic Sans MS">Dan
>>
>>
>> From: charityh at COMCAST.NET
>> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 21:44
>> To: slling-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>> Subject: [slling-l] (rephrased) Two questions
>>
>> Sorry, folks...
>>
>> Let me re-phrase my #2 question below.
>>
>> What i actually meant is could som eone exp in ASL are classifiers  
>> and NOT a member of noun class? And i want an explanation for vice  
>> versa as well.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sarah
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: charityh at COMCAST.NET
>> Got two questions here...
>>
>> 1) How old is English, counting Old English? I couldn't find this  
>> information on Wikipedia.
>>
>> 2) Could someone give me examples of noun classifiers and noun  
>> classes for ASL? To me, it seems as if some of today's discussed  
>> classifiers in ASL are actually noun classes or vice versa, but i  
>> may be wrong. By the way, would the agent marker in ASL (open &  
>> flat hand, both hands, palms facing each other, moving down from  
>> upper chest to lower torso) be placed in the noun class?
>>
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