(rephrased) Two questions

[Dan Jinguji]

Here's a complete stab in the dark. I think it's because of the way that they behave / are used. 

They are somewhat like the counter words used in a several (actually, I think it's a number of) Asian languages. In fact, these counter terms are typically called 'classifiers'. For example, in Japanese, when I want to talk about the fact that there are kittens in room, I would say something like 'room-in-topic, kitten exist', if I wanted to say that there were three of them, 'room-in-topic, kitten three-CL exist". Now, this word glossed as 'CL' ('hiki') does not mean kitten, rather it is used when referring to (counting) any relatively small animals. So, I could use the same word for mice, ferrets, dogs, etc. There is a separate word ('tou') for large animals, (not unlike talking about "14 head of cattle").

Now, things get very interesting when we talk about ... say, pencils. There is a classifier for long, thin things. It's also used for shots (injections), logs, scrolls, trees. In that way, it's rather like the "1" ASL classifier. It can be used to refer to any long, thin thing. And, you'll notice that it cannot stand on it's own. The noun must be introduced before, either through conversational context, but generally by direct inclusion in the discourse. 

Another example is "3" to mean vehicle. It does not mean, 'car' or 'bus' or 'truck' or ... but once the noun has been introduced, it can be used to represent it. Is this making any sense ... or am I just blathering on.

(rather than risk of blathering incomprehensibly ... I stop now ... comments?)

Dan


From: charityh at COMCAST.NET 
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 21:44
To: slling-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu 
Subject: [slling-l] (rephrased) Two questions


Sorry, folks...

Let me re-phrase my #2 question below.

What i actually meant is could someone explain why noun classifiers in ASL are classifiers and NOT a member of noun class? And i want an explanation for vice versa as well.

Thanks,
Sarah

  -------------- Original message -------------- 
  From: charityh at COMCAST.NET 

  Got two questions here...

  1) How old is English, counting Old English? I couldn't find this information on Wikipedia.

  2) Could someone give me examples of noun classifiers and noun classes for ASL? To me, it seems as if some of today's discussed classifiers in ASL are actually noun classes or vice versa, but i may be wrong. By the way, would the agent marker in ASL (open & flat hand, both hands, palms facing each other, moving down from upper chest to lower torso) be placed in the noun class?

  Sarah
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