SW-HamNoSys

Tue Jul 3 21:04:45 UTC 2012

Hello Adam and everyone  -

You are right there are a large number of signs in the German SignPuddles online… and I wanted you to know about this because it is remarkable work - but not necessarily what is needed for a linguistic database - each person who uses SignPuddle uses it for different purposes…The software and writing system is flexible and is being used privately for linguistic purposes as well...

The German Sign Language (DGS) Dictionary in SignPuddle online is written (almost entirely) by one dedicated teacher, Stefan Woehrmann, specifically for one purpose - to teach literacy to his Deaf students at the Osnabruck School for the Deaf in Osnabruck, Germany. Stefan has enhanced his student's educations, by teaching them language in a new remarkable way, and his SignPuddle database has been a big part of his work. Stefan needs to keep his database the way he has it, for specific reasons for education translations. So the database is not based on linguistics, but was developed for educational and translation purposes.

To create a SignPuddle database that is specific to the definitions and rules of the linguistics professions certainly can be done by anyone who wishes to do so… but I think it needs to start from scratch, building the data for your specific criteria - a blank, new empty SignPuddle database can be provided for anyone who needs it, to start your own projects…and then signs from different databases can be brought into the new database based on your specific rules and needs.

Steve Slevinski, Adam Frost and I are a team. We are here to help with this, for any one who wishes to create your own databases using SignPuddle and the SignWriting script.

Three side notes:

1. Now, there is new software from the University of Hamburg and C1 WPS Workplace Solutions, called DELEGS, that coordinates with the SignPuddle DGS dictionary, Stefan and other teachers of Deaf students in Germany, can create documents that translate spoken language textbooks, into written sign language, so their students can understand both languages better and can grasp the content of the textbooks. So the German SignPuddles online are geared towards Deaf Education, and are used with this software:

DELEGS
http://www.delegs.com/delegseditor/

DELEGS stands for "German Learning with SignWriting" but in German of course…I believe it is "Deutsch lernen mit GebaerdenSchrift" (Stefan and others, please correct me if I am wrong ;-))

Anyway - that specific database is impressive for its educational purpose…

THANK YOU, to all of you, who have created DELEGS…and thank you to Stefan Woehrmann for making this possible

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2. Dr. Penny Boyes Braem, who started this thread, and who is developing a new database that will work with both HamNoSys and SignWriting, has used SignWriting for years in other projects…more related to Deaf Education and writing German-Swiss Sign Language for daily use by signing populations

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3. There is a new linguistic database that will be using SignWriting now, that has recently received funding from the NSF through the University of Connecticut (UCONN), called SignTyp, directed by Dr. Harry van der Hulst and Dr. Rachel Channon. The new SignTyp project will be using SignPuddle and the SignWriting script to transcribe sign language videos from 15 countries…the project is just getting started and I will inform you about this linguistic use of SignWriting in the future...

Val ;-)

Valerie Sutton
sutton at signwriting.org

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On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Adam Schembri wrote:

> The number of unique signs in the German Sign Language (DGS) Dictionary
> caught my eye - that's a very high number compared to other collections.
> I've just had a look at the DGS dictionary on SignPuddle Online, and it
> seems that some of the entries really would not deserve to be listed as
> unique entries for DGS as suggested in this message. For example, the same
> lexical sign appears to be listed under 'krank' (sick) and 'nicht krank'
> (not sick). In the case of 'nicht krank', you have the lexical item
> combined with a headshake. There is also 'erkranken' (get sick) which is
> translated by what appears to be a phrase in DGS meaning 'become sick'.
> This is a translation of the German word into DGS, and not a 'unique sign'
> in DGS as such. 
> Although I do not wish to diminish the impressive effort that has gone
> into making this SignPuddle collection for DGS and the many hours of work
> that it required (well done!), we do have to be careful when comparing
> sign language dictionaries, glossaries and wordlists because the same
> approach to documenting and recording sign languages is not taken across
> all of them. In particular, we have to be careful when listing the number
> of entries and their relationship to the actual number of unique lexical
> items documented for the sign language in question.
> Thanks,
> Adam
> -- 
> Assoc. Prof. Adam Schembri, PhD
> Director | National Institute for Deaf Studies and Sign Language
> (www.latrobe.edu.au/nids)
> Interim director | Centre for Research on Language Diversity
> (www.latrobe.edu.au/rclt)
> La Trobe University | Melbourne (Bundoora) | Victoria |  3086 |  Australia
> Tel : +61 3 9479 2887/6401 | Mob: +61 432 840 744
> |http://www.adamschembri.net/webpage/Welcome.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/07/12 5:51 , "Valerie Sutton" <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG> wrote:
> 
>> Hello Sarah, Penny, Gerard, Dan, all Š.
>> 
>> If you are in need of other sign languages written in SignWriting for
>> parallel data, we certainly have a long list SignPuddles filled with
>> dataŠsome of the country dictionaries in SignPuddle Online include far
>> larger databases than the DSGS SignPuddleŠ
>> 
>> For example, below are two puddle files for German Sign LanguageŠthe
>> dictionary alone has over 17,000 entriesŠ thanks to Stefan Woehrmann and
>> others in Hamburg for your hard work to make this data available:
>> 
>> German Sign Language Dictionary in SignPuddle:
>> 17,796 Unique Signs
>> http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/index.php?ui=8&sgn=53
>> 
>> German Sign Language Literature in SignPuddle:
>> 2, 645 Entries (Documents in Written DGS)
>> http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/index.php?ui=8&sgn=26
>> 
>> When you go to the SignPuddle Online Directory:
>> 
>> SignPuddle Online
>> http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle
>> 
>> ... you will find flags from different countries. Click on the flags.
>> Some have large files and some have not entered anything publicly - but
>> there are private SignPuddles that are very large too. If you would like
>> links to other large SignPuddles I will be happy to provide them for
>> you...
>> 
>> If you would like programming assistance to help transfer SignWriting
>> data from SignPuddle to your new database, we will be glad to help any
>> project. Just write to me privately to arrange this:
>> 
>> Valerie Sutton
>> sutton at signwriting.org
>> or
>> signwriting at mac.com
>> 
>> Look forward to hearing from you -
>> 
>> And congrats on your new project...
>> 
>> Val ;-)
>> 
>> ---------
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 1, 2012, at 10:50 PM, Sarah Ebling wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Dan,
>>> 
>>> thanks for clarifying this.    I agree; that's why we'd be happy to get
>>> additional parallel data (from other sign languages).
>>> 
>>> Best wishes, 
>>> Sarah and Penny
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 6:00 AM, SLLING-L automatic digest system wrote:
>>> 
>>>> There is 1 message totalling 21 lines in this issue.
>>>> 
>>>> Topics of the day:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. SW-HamNoSys
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Date:    Sun, 1 Jul 2012 19:05:41 -0400
>>>> From:    Dan Parvaz <dparvaz at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Re: SW-HamNoSys
>>>> 
>>>> Penny,
>>>> 
>>>> I think Gerard's question is that since you are using your corpus of
>>>> signs... are 
>>>> we talking about signs written in DSGS? If so, then your conversion
>>>> will be 
>>>> based on a particular language's statistical model (DSGS HS inventory
>>>> and 
>>>> distribution ‚ BSL inventory, for example). How well a conversion
>>>> based on this 
>>>> model will work with another signed language is an interesting
>>>> question.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> -Dan.
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> End of SLLING-L Digest - 29 Jun 2012 to 1 Jul 2012 (#2012-66)
>>>> *************************************************************
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 