AW: writing by hand - not so easy ? -

Wed Dec 3 21:37:43 UTC 2003

Hi Ingvild, Valerie and list members,

thanks for your reply -

well I am afraid that there is a combination of several problems -

Ingvild: "I agrre with Valerie, Stefan, it is important that your students
may try
to write their own signs. I thought they already did this? I have seen
photos from you where they are writing on the blackboars, haven't I?"

Well yes - they can write their sign-names and this and that - but it is far
away from what I expect a 10 year old child to express in written form.
They can copy signs and symbols and show not too much attention to a very
accurate writing - which on the other hand is an interesting information.
They are absolute fluent readers - but not in an analytic - reading - style
as I call it if the reader is informed about all the tiny hints and pieces
that are "hidden" in a correct SW - spelling.

..... "Anyway, practice, with the possibility to make mistakes, is important
in
all learning. And if SignWritng is ever to become the written form of the
sign languages, it is important that it is not only typed but also
hand-written."

Hm - I am not sure about that. When I started to write my first signs - I
mean searching for the location of the various symbols, getting used to the
function- keys ... it took soooooooooooo long. I felt unable and unsecure to
write by hand for a long time. This changed  when I got handwritten - SW-
documents from my DEAF  SL - teacher . I was so impressed that she simply
did ...
But it is not a question of my handwriting - skills as an adult,
enthusiastic SW- user.
My students show interest to write the one or other sign, or short phrase in
SW - handwriting - but it is not enough in order to develop literacy .. .

"I am sure your students will want to take down notes, or
write letters, or whatever, in their own handwriting. And it will take
time - and time is so precious when we are teaching the Deaf kids, because
of all they miss that comes freely trough the air for us who can hear."

Well - you should watch my little son Gordian 5 years now. He sits down in
front of the keyboard - he is able to start the SW - program - he opens his
old files or starts with new ones - he started to "write" his own
Maenniken - He can write with MS Word his ideas in his phonological-
oriented spelling - but he is interested to express his own ideas in a
written form  - and more than that - he is able to develop his own ideas -
I was lucky to work for a while with a deaf child from a all- deaf - family
background. Same with her ...

But what happens to DEAF children from hearing parents. They have a
fundamental lack in early childhood communication. They did not practice
dialog for years !!!!! in any formal language - some home talk- signs and
gestures - if only that ...

So perhaps the problem is very complex. You can bet that the parents are not
able to communicate with their children in SL - They focus on spoken
language development in spoken or written form. The parents accept the use
of SW but they are not able to read even very simple signs.
My students are very much under pressure to follow a given curriculum .

Do you know that we read and type   (;-))    GebaerdenSchrift  - documents
day by day in almost any subject. Perhaps more than any other class in the
world ....

"Would they like to make stuff at home, like writing the sign-names of
their family for gift-tags or greeting-cards, then the rest of the family
would have to use 'their' language to know whom it is for ... Just an
idea, I'm sure you have many."

Yes would be nice - ha - deaf students are in a bad position if the whole
family is hearing and shows almost no interest in SL. Same old soup ... deaf
children have to grow up in order to inform their hearing parents about
their isolated situation ...

..... "The important thing is that they do their own writing - at least most
of the time."

You think so? I would be sooooo happy if this would happen. .... big sigh -
I am desperate to include anything that supports us in developing literacy
skills. But compared to hearing children we are way back in understanding
written German documents - I am afraid we are also way back in discussing
math's-problems, role-taking social -behavior issues,...

The reason that I asked for feedback is that I cannot imagine at all that
other 8 - to ten year old students are really able to use handwriting SW as
a notation system that can be compared with written language as hearing
pre-school kids can use it. (So not just copying some signs - or kind of
painting some signs more or less accurate for a document that is planned for
any kind of presentation. I can imagine that deaf students at the age of 15
or 16 will show a different attitude.

(Gordian 5 years wrote a story today -just one sentence but interesting:
He wrote : At kindergarten there has been a flea marked. I bought a
stretched limousine.)
I would be soooooooooo happy if any young deaf child would be able to write
any idea like this in SW. ...

So all in all - yes we can show more than one document - in a handwritten
form. And yes I agree - the students are very proud to be able to write
them - but I am afraid that this would not be enough to develop bilingual
competence ...

Well I know that this is a very specific problem - but I really appreciate
any kind of feedback --- thanks

all the best

Stefan ;-)

-----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
Von: SignWriting List [mailto:SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]Im Auftrag von
Ingvild Roald
Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2003 20:58
An: SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
Betreff: Re: writing by hand - not so easy ? -

I agrre with Valerie, Stefan, it is important that your students may try
to write their own signs. I thought they already did this? I have seen
photos from you where they are writing on the blackboars, haven't I?
Anyway, practice, with the possibility to make mistakes, is important in
all learning. And if SignWritng is ever to become the written form of the
sign languages, it is important that it is not only typed but also
hand-written. I am sure your students will want to take down notes, or
write letters, or whatever, in their own handwriting. And it will take
time - and time is so precious when we are teaching the Deaf kids, because
of all they miss that comes freely trough the air for us who can hear.
Would they like to make stuff at home, like writing the sign-names of
their family for gift-tags or greeting-cards, then the rest of the family
would have to use 'their' language to know whom it is for ... Just an
idea, I'm sure you have many.

The important thing is that they do their own writing - at least most of
the time.

Good luck,

Ingvild

SignWriting List <SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA> skriver:
>SignWriting List
>December 2, 2003
>
>On Nov 25, 2003, at 8:25 AM, Stefan Woehrmann wrote:
>> They have got the problem to formulate ideas, stories on their own.
>> Most of
>> the students started to interact in SL not until before they became 6
>> or 7
>> years old. Sometimes I am afraid that we lost this first
>> speachdevelopement - phase -- And now we are struggling ...
>> Nevertheless - I am curious to use any means to improve their
>> expressive
>> skills.
>
>Stefan and Everyone -
>It has been a holiday week here, so it is possible that the teachers in
>the US did not see your question...But attached is a nice photo of a
>Deaf child in Brazil writing rows and rows for practice...They produced
>some great handwritten documents later...Antonio Carlos posted them on
>his web site...go to:
>
>Brazilian SW Handwriting and Students
>http://gmc.ucpel.tche.br/signwriting/frei-pacifico/
>
>I do not know if writing SignWriting by hand will help increase your
>Deaf student's expressive skills...no proof of anything...but I can
>hardly see how it would hurt them?...When students only paste signs
>already written for them, in the dictionary in SignWriter, that keeps
>them from practicing how to write or type...that actually might be
>holding their development back...you never know until you test with and
>without....you may find their speech skills improve when they write
>SignWriting on their own, because some deaf students get so excited to
>express themselves in written Sign, that they rush over to a hearing
>person and start vocalizing...I have heard of this now several
>times...so I would suggest testing it...Albuquerque, as far as I know,
>is in the same boat with you, Stefan...they got dependent on pasting
>signs from the dictionary too, but there are some students who write by
>hand on their own, because they choose to...
>
>I believe you told me, Stefan, that a Deaf co-worker of yours writes
>pages of SignWriting by hand and faxes it to you? That is
>wonderful...if nothing more the handwriting is useful for those who do
>not have computers... Val ;-)
>
>
>
>