[sw-l] Handwriting and idiosyncratic SW

[Sandy Fleming]

Hi Antônio Carlos!

Of course, with the fingerspelling, I'm just talking about what I need to be
able to do _now_, not about future trends.

It's all about the fact that BSL fingerspelling is an extreme case - very
tedious to write indeed. Also, BSL fingerspelling is only a small subsytem
within BSL - not too dangerous for an amateur to tinker with in written
form!  :)

I don't see why SW shouldn't continue essentially in its present form, with
handwriting done in a consistent way (whatever Val has in mind for the
latest version of that mystery document of hers!).

The Egyptians maintained a clear system of craftsman-standard heiroglyphics
for thousands of years, alongside more convenient versions of it for
everyday writing. We could perhaps have the same sort of approach to
computer-produced versus handwritten SW: the computer stuff full and fixed,
the handwriting streamlined and stylised. It's also said, however, that
Chinese iconographs are related to Egyptian heiroglyphics, even though the
iconic nature of them is now mostly opaque. This is something I wouldn't
like to see - people writing vestiges of old signs, not knowing how to do
subtle inflections or non-manual features, with all the expression and
transparency of SW lost.

I think it's more important in SW to maintain meaningful iconicity or
transparency than it is in written forms of oral languages: understanding
the iconicity of sign languages is an important aspect of profiency in the
language, and I think in order to express ourselves properly it needs to be
maintained in the writing too.

Val already recommends dropping certain things from writing, even with
computers. For example, we should avoid writing the fourth "syllable" of a
sign unless absolutely necessary (see the "Spelling Guide" online).

Sandy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> [mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu]On Behalf Of Rocha
> Sent: 04 October 2004 20:09
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting and idiosyncratic SW
>
>
> Hi Val and all,
>
>     Just to let everybody know the terms in which I am putting this issue
> of easiness of writing in SignWriting, when I discuss it here.
>
>     I think that Valerie's great goal of having a highly precise visual
> writing system for sign languages amounted to the creation of what
> linguists use to call a *phonetic* system, that is, a notation system
> where every important detail of the articulation of the linguistic
> expression is registered.
>
>     Our oral alphabet does not follows this line of representatin. It it
> is more of what is called a *phonological* system, that is, a notation
> system where the idiosyncratic, regional, cultural, prosodic,
> individual, momentary, etc., variations of the production of the
> linguistic expression are put aside, in favor of a standardized written
> representation.
>
>     Handwriting the symbols of SignWriting may help to ease the writing of
> sign languages, but it seems to me that it will not be enough. At some
> point in the future (after the SignWriting system is well assimilated by
> everybody), people will be forced to start to establish conventions
> about what details are irrelevant in the production of a sign and, thus,
> what should be left out of the standard representation of each sign.
>
>     I illustrate this in the picture that is attached to the message. From
> left to right, it shows a progressive simplification of the writing of
> the sign "house" in the Brazilian sign language LIBRAS.
>
>     How far one can go to the right, simplifying the representation, is
> something to be determined by negotiation among people, and may vary
> from place to place (region, city, etc.).
>
>     How near one needs stay to the left (and one can surely go into much
> more detail, like representing the full body, etc.) is also to be
> negotiated.
>
>     Where will people find is the suitable intermediate point, that is
> the question.
>
>     All this is not new, I remember having this kind of discussion some
> time ago in the list (if I'm not wrong). But I feel the time is
> approaching where people will have to prepare for it.
>
>     All the best,
>
>     Antônio Carlos
>
>
> --
> Antônio Carlos da Rocha Costa
> Escola de Informática - UCPel
>
>
>
> --
> Antônio Carlos da Rocha Costa
> Escola de Informática - UCPel
>