[sw-l] SWML-S export for Sign Puddle

Wed Sep 29 19:15:02 UTC 2004

Well, I am not sure if lunch is an example of multiple signs using the
same gloss. I would consider that more an example of a composite sign
(i.e. a concept expressed by more than one sign).  I have a suggestion
on how that could be handled.

I wonder if you could do something like this:

<sign gloss="lunch" composite="yes">
    <include gloss="eat>
    <include gloss ="noon">
</sign>

Then eat could look like this:

 <signbox gloss="eat" composite="no">
  <symbol x="4",y="12">01-01-001-01-01-01</symbol>
  <symbol x="12",y="42">04-01-001-01-01-01</symbol>
 </signbox>

The use of a "composite" attribute and some kind of insert element could
allow for composite signs. Then the computer can arrange the signs
horizontally or vertically depending on context. If however there are
some things that happen in the transition between the signs that make up
that composite sign, then maybe it will still be best to keep it all in
one signbox and just note somewhere that this sign is derived from these
composite signs, but when actually produced, some different things
happen.  A classic example is the use of the "PERSON" suffix in ASL.
Depending on the sign before it, PERSON can be two handed or one handed.
For example, PASTOR (PREACH+PERSON) is generally done one-handed, but
TEACHER (TEACH+PERSON) is generally done two-handed. They are composite
signs, but TEACHER is probably a better candidate for a composite sign
like I describe above.  PASTOR probably should not be treated as a
composite sign.  Make sense?

The issue of multiple signs using the same gloss is for example the word
"run".

You might say I have a run in my hose, I am running a program, I am
running a marathon, I am running a motor, I am running behind, I have a
runny nose.  Those might all be glossed with run simply because that is
the English association.

That is where if I am using the word "run", the computer should be able
to show all the signs that have been glossed as "run" and then we can
choose which one fits this context.  This is where glossing runs into
trouble because the semantic domains of specific words between two
languages do not necessary cover the same territory.

Thanks,

Stuart

Stephen Slevinski wrote:

>Hi Antônio Carlos,
>
>The ASL (sgn-US) sign for lunch is a combination of "eat" and "noon".  This
>is an example of multiple signs being represented by a single gloss.  Using
>a signbox would look like:
>
><sign gloss="lunch">
> <signbox gloss="eat">
>  <symbol x="4",y="12">01-01-001-01-01-01</symbol>
>  <symbol x="12",y="42">04-01-001-01-01-01</symbol>
> </signbox>
> <signbox gloss="noon">
>  <symbol x="4",y="12">01-01-001-01-01-01</symbol>
>  <symbol x="12",y="42">04-01-001-01-01-01</symbol>
> </signbox>
></sign>
>
>This sign can be correctly displayed for horizontal or verticle writing.
>
>This type of gloss doesn't work with Sign Puddle.  The sign will not display
>correctly in verticle writing if the sign is entered into the dictionary
>horizontally. (and vice versa)
>
>The combination sign should not be entered, and the individual parts should
>be entered.  When using the translation, the individual glosses should be
>used.  So "eat noon" should be used to get the correct ASL for lunch.  I
>would assume that the sign for "lunch" in Sign Puddle would be the
>efficiency L to the chin; a single sign.
>
>This is another design flaw for Sign Puddle: One gloss to one sign.  The
>actual relationship is "many glosses to one sign" and as you correctly point
>out "one gloss to many signs".
>
>BTY, SWML-S can handle "many glosses to one sign".  The gloss parameter for
>the sign element accepts a comma seperated list.
>
>-Stephen
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>[mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu]On Behalf Of Rocha
>Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:05 AM
>To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>Subject: Re: [sw-l] SWML-S export for Sign Puddle
>
>
>
>Stephen,
>
>   Great work! SWML-S is really simple! :-) It will be easy to make it
>interoperable with any other dialect of SWML that uses IMWA.
>Congratulations!
>
>   I have just one suggestion that, of course, you may follow or not,
>according to the needs of your project. It may be necessary, for more
>extensive uses of dictionaries, to have one gloss in an oral language to
>be translated into more than one sign, in the sign language.
>
>   So, perhaps it will be useful to explicitly introduce sign-boxes in
>SWML-S, to be able to clearly separate those signs. I mention this
>because one possible reading of your XML format is that  you are
>implicitly using a sign-box, encompassing the set of symbols. Allowing
>explicitly for more than one sign-box may be helpful in this sense.
>
>   Of course, the decision is yours. SignPuddle demonstrates by itself
>you don't need advices to do a great job :-)
>
>   All the best,
>
>   Antônio Carlos
>
>
>Stephen Slevinski wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi list,
>>
>>Becasue of the internal changes with SignMaker, it is now possible to
>>
>>
>export
>
>
>>the Sign Puddle dictionary into SWML-S.  This export utility will only
>>
>>
>work
>
>
>>for signs that were created with the new SignMaker.  Sorry for all the
>>
>>
>past
>
>
>>signs - poor design choices.
>>
>>SWML-S stands for SignWriting Markup Langauge - Simple.  Any application
>>that wants to import a Sign Puddle dictionary now has a simple way to do
>>
>>
>it.
>
>
>>SWML-S was created to work with the IMWA.  It does not work with sss-95 or
>>sss-99.
>>
>>I've made a hidden page that exports SWML-S for all of the dictionaries.
>>The page is called swml.php
>>
>>You can access the page by:
>>dictionary-location /swml.php
>>
>>Examples...
>>http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/SGN-US/swml.php
>>http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/SGN-BR/swml.php
>>http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/SGN-WO/swml.php
>>http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/sgn-CH-fr/swml.php
>>
>>There are currently no applications that import or export SWML-S.  But I
>>
>>
>do
>
>
>>have a preview utility on oculog.net.  You can view it here:
>>http://oculog.net/swml/dump.php
>>
>>If you copy the code from the swml.php and paste it into the preview
>>utility, you can verify that SWML-S will work and your dictionary is
>>portable.
>>
>>Enjoy,
>>-Stephen
>>
>>---
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>>
>>
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