[sw-l] Re: SignPuddle

[Valerie Sutton]

SignWriting List
April 27, 2005

Hello Barbara and Everyone!
Thanks for this message...

Val wrote:

>> start, may I ask, do you and Elena know about SignPuddle? It is a
>> wonderful tool and I have the Italian Sign Language dictionary
>> section

Barbara wrote:
>
> Yes, you've already told us many times. However, as I already tried to
> tell you before, I don't really think that using exclusively web-based
> application is a viable solution for most of our group. And it is
> still a bit too early to start filling a web-based dictionary, since
> we're still learning how to write signs.

But this is where you mis-understand too! We teach SignWriting through
the use of SignPuddle now...in time there will be a computer-desktop
version...but people learn how to write signs by using SignPuddle...a
lot easier to learn than any other method we have...

>> So as soon as you feel ready, I can walk you through, step by step,
>> how to create your first sign in SignWriting there, and you will see
>> it is much easier than using DOS or Java at the moment...
>
> I don't agree really much on this point. Web-based programs have their
> pros but also their CONS, as do also stand-alone programs.

It is the best we have right now, that's all...Of course we certainly
do need stand-alone programs on desktops, and we already have several
of those, but the SignPuddle Online Community is really changing things
for us....people learn to use SignWriting very very quickly...a lot of
the frustrations go away fast...Penny in Switzerland is an example of
this...they were frustrated by SignWriter but now that they are using
SignPuddle it is very different for them...


> I *still* prefer to have a workable and viable STAND-ALONE program,
> since I'm not really much fond of (ab)using the mouse (I'm a keyboard
> person) and not everybody in the group can stay connected 24/7... DSL
> lines in Italy don't grow on trees and aren't really much reliable.

Ok. But our stand-alone programs have a lot of bugs right now...and
have you ever even looked at SignPuddle?...

>
> I concede you that the idea of web-based dictionaries like SignPuddle
> is great, in terms of collaborative work. However, I'd really
> appreciate if somebody could also devise an easy way to have/convert
> it into a SW dictionary in our own computer/laptop for when we cannot
> connect to internet.

Obviously! We all want that...but some of our computer-desktop programs
have bugs in them, and even though new ones are under development, we
do have a fun way of learning right now...

>> I am sure you know that Penny's research group in German-Switzerland
>> is using SignPuddle for their SignWriting research now too?...
>
> Yes, you told us already. But, as far as I know, our project is a bit
> different from Boyes-Braem's.

People use SignWriting for many different things, but to be able to
drag and drop lots of signs into Microsoft Word or other documents is
such a blessing, that not to even look at it is a shame...

>
> There is another thing: Elena and I are currently the ones with a good
> degree of fluency in english, in our group. I must confess that I
> don't really relish the prospective of becoming a relay service (I'm
> not working full-time on this project).

No English is necessary...people who do not know English use SignPuddle
all the time...a Deaf woman in Switzerland named Carmen Steiner is the
one who is entering all the Swiss-German signs in SignPuddle right now,
and Carmen does not speak English...

>
> So, personally, I'd rather wait for the whole group (and Elena) to go
> deeper into their SW knowledge (and have a sizeable bunch of LIS
> examples to copy into the SignPuddle, too ;-), before explaining them
> how to use the SignPuddle.

I am happy to pay for the phone call to Italy. If Elena and you can be
by the telephone when I call, with your computer on. I can voice to
Elena, or perhaps another interpreter, and the three of you can follow
my instructions on the phone and you will know how to use it within 20
minutes. Then you can show others in any language you choose!

That is how I taught Penny...on the phone for 20 minutes and they have
been using it much faster than using any other program that we have
right now...it is not a question of preferring desktop programs...I do
too...but right now we have something that gives you the up-to-date
symbols, that you cannot get in those other programs right now...the
current symbolset is larger and gives you enormous possibilities that
are not in any desktop version...

So let me teach you or others for 20 minutes on the phone, and you will
have something to turn to, if the frustrations with the bugs in other
programs finally gets too annoying to stand...smile...or if you want to
access our larger symbolset, which is called the International Movement
Writing Alphabet (IMWA)...this will give you more symbols for
handshapes that may exist in Italian Sign Language...that are not
available in SignWriter at this time...

And another point...even if only one person uses SignPuddle from your
group...that one person will be able to create signs in three different
sizes, color them any color with any color background, search for signs
by sign-symbols, drag and drop into your document, and so many other
features that they could create your layout for your book faster...so
if your layout artist uses SignPuddle you will make your diagrams
faster...

Val ;-)
Sutton at SignWriting.org
858-456-0098 voice
plus I do have a videophone if you want that...