AW: AW: [sw-l] CZJ - Czech sign language: SKOLA (school) - video

Stefan Wöhrmann stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE
Sun Aug 21 13:40:53 UTC 2005

Hi Honza, 

- smile - 
hand-shape  is not correct? 

Why should I vote for a wrong hand shape symbol? Any idea?  - smile!!

Well - I write what I see - 

We are not mathematics to measure the exact degree of the angle ;-)) 

I saw several spellings with the fingers bent - so you get this 90 degree
hand shape. 

What I perceive is something different. It should be possible to make a
screenshot. This still would show a flat hand!? - 

I see somebody putting his right hand ( flat hand thumb up) between his left
upper arm and body. 

It would be possible to execute a performance with kind of rotation movement
- and if you want to see that - it should be possible - 

I  myself understand this performance as more a multiple pretty short upward

So in order to get to this end positon  you have to move your right hand
around until the back of your right hands shows to the left! This often
causes some kind of hinge-movement at the knuckle-joints - 

In the video I cannot see this that much.

So we have to find a way to write what we see. smile 

Within several performances of different signers or even the same signer you
may find some kind of variation and in SW you will find you in the place to
vote for this or that or an additional extra hand shape. 

Whether a spelling is correct or not is sometimes difficult to decide. Smile
- some spellings are definitely violating rules or are totally different
from what the performance shows. 

In this case - well the uninformed competent reader would show us! - smile 


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-sw-l at
[mailto:owner-sw-l at] Im Auftrag von Honza
Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. August 2005 15:13
An: sw-l at
Betreff: Re: AW: [sw-l] CZJ - Czech sign language: SKOLA (school) - video

sorry, I always forgot something.
I meant just head and mouthing is signed as on your picture.
The handshape in your writing of SKOLA is not correct.

Hi Stefan and everybody.

it is funny to see SKOLA written with mouthbuilder :)
Yes, sure, it depends on situation when is the signlanguage used.
Signs like on video are signned in this way often in schools or on TV
(because as they say "not only Deafs are watching broadcasting for the
deafs, but also hard of hearings, loss of hearings, so we use the way of
language the most people can understand").

In general mouthing (as articulating words) is not fixed part of czech
signs (even if some people use it)
Anyway, SKOLA is mostly signed like your second picture  ;-)


Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:

>Hi Honza, Tomas, Shane, Valerie, Charles ... sw -list
>today I looked for the fist time at this "skola -video" - 
>There are - as always many more variations how to write the sign in SW. 
>Looking at Shane's comment ("crap and shit" )- I had to smile. 
>Well if you would accept that the signer is actually doing a lot with his
>mouth - (smile) you would not identify this sign as " a total crap" -- or
>"total shit" - 
>Dr Penny Boyes Braem  from Switzerland made me very attentive to these
>So obviously the sign that is shown in this video is a combination of kind
>of "voiceless articulation movements" which can be written with my
>Mundbildschrift - 
>looking at the hand and at the moovement I can imagine a different spelling
>So it depends who should get the information. Students who  are on their
>to use bilingual materials in order to develop Spoken Language skills will
>definitely take advantage out of a very detailed spelling - .
>Once they know the terms in SL and Spoken Languages a less detailed
>Mundbildschrift would do it - if there are no similar signs - which can
>to confusion. But that depends on the scribes knowledge of the given SL
>his intentions. 
>Stefan ;-)) 
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: owner-sw-l at
>[mailto:owner-sw-l at] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton
>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. August 2005 23:26
>An: sw-l at
>Betreff: Re: [sw-l] CZJ - Czech sign language: SKOLA (school) - video
>SignWriting List
>August 18, 2005
>Shane Ó hEorpa wrote:
>>In British Sign Language, that sign mean "a total crap" or "a total  
>>shit" if
>>done once - if twice, it mean "it is rubbish" or "it is crap"
>Great. This means that you can copy the sign for Skola in the Czech  
>SignPuddle and paste it into the BSL SignPuddle, and change the name  
>of the sign, and you don't have to re-write it! That will add one  
>more sign to the BSL SignPuddle!  Val ;-)
>PS. List members...If you need instructions on how to paste signs  
>from one SignPuddle to another, just ask me!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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