Query on Sign Documents

Charles Butler chazzer3332000 at YAHOO.COM
Mon Aug 29 18:51:41 UTC 2005

I agree, the sign-capture process is not trivial.  I remember Senor Rocha writing the seminal paper on the programming involved.  However, I have a few questions.
1) If the sign-spelling of a sign were uniform (i.e., always start with the dominant hand, etc.) and tagged as such in the creation process (i.e., when a sign goes into the dictionary, whether on Sign Puddle or DOS 4.5) could it not be possible, at that point, to assemble a master dictionary of a given text.  The problem I see, now, is that a person cannot save, on SignPuddle, an unknown phrase for parsing later.  Example, if I see a combination of handshapes and movements, in a language I don't know, and write them down, and then ask "using the corpus I already have recorded" are there "any matches to what I have", then by paramater A - handshape and orientation, i'd get X number of matches.  If there are no matches there, then I have a new sign and should go through it and tag it into Sign-Spelling Order for later investigation.  Whether I know the meaning of a sign or not, I should still be able to write it down as S-1 (Starting Position 1), F-1 (Finished Position) + move!
 ments to
 get from S-1 to F-1.  I'd do the same thing for an English word "zarf" to go between "zany" and "zoo".  I don't need to know a meaning to write it down and alphabetize it.

Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
SignWriting List
August 29, 2005

No it is not trivial...that is for sure! But one good way to begin 
are the SignSpelling features that you are adding to SignPuddle 2.0. 
Once the person who enters the signs into SignPuddle establishes the 
sort order for each SignSpelling, then we could perhaps search on 
signs with that spelling-sort-order....someday? Val ;-)


On Aug 29, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Steve Slevinski wrote:

> Hi Charles,
> I do not know of any true sign documents on the web at this time. 
> I believe the best way to accomplish this would use XML to store 
> the data and XLT to display the data. A while back, someone posted 
> an XLT for SWML-S 1.0. It worked in Firefox, but I think that's 
> about it.
> I believe we have two problems that need to be addressed. The 
> first problem is displaying the signs in the browsers. This will 
> probably require plug-in development. The second problem is sign 
> matching. I believe a few papers have been written on this topic. 
> It is not trivial.
> for what it's worth,
> -Steve
> Charles Butler wrote:
>> Can one yet make a sign document on the Web, and save it as a true 
>> document, so that it can be searched for signs, like a word 
>> processor? Right now, we are still limited to signs with word-to- 
>> word translation.
>> Charles
>> */Valerie Sutton /* wrote:
>> SignWriting List
>> August 27, 2005
>> The SignMail program in SignPuddle (that let's us send email in
>> SignWriting), can be used as a document-creating program too. For
>> example, Nana from the Philippines sent the Filipino song as an
>> email. Then I created a screen capture from the email and posted
>> the screen-capture on the web:
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/philippines/philippines03.html
>> You can also do this with the Translate program in SignPuddle.
>> Take a screen capture once the translation is done, and that
>> screen capture can become the document...
>> One of many ways to use SignPuddle!
>> Thank you, Steve, for all these features...
>> SignPuddle
>> http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle
>> Val ;-)

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