Deaf opposition to SW

Sat Aug 6 19:22:10 UTC 2005

HARTNAECKIG, Stefan :-)

Lucy


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stefan Wöhrmann" <stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE>
To: <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 8:58 PM
Subject: AW: [sw-l] Deaf opposition to SW


> Hi Shane,
>
> "some deaf participants there were SO BENT on finding fault with
> SignWriting" -
>
> What do you mean? Did I miss something? Can you explain ??
>
> My English is not good enough -- "were SO BENT "  ?????
>
> What did these participants (whoever) suggest??
>
> Stefan ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> [mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Shane 
> Gilchrist
> Ó hEorpa
> Gesendet: Samstag, 6. August 2005 18:33
> An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Betreff: RE: [sw-l] Deaf opposition to SW
>
> James,
>
> It was very interesting at the ESWO conference - some deaf participants
> there were SO BENT on finding fault with SignWriting - Stefan said that 
> the
> ESWO conference is discussing and developing SignWriting in an European
> context - we will have a very long fight ahead, trying to get the system
> accepted - but I do think SW will be accepted in Northern Ireland very 
> soon
> - but we need to ask a trainer to come over and train my people how to do 
> it
> - I know they will do it shall they be given the right teacher.
>
> Shane of Belfast
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:owner-sw-
>> l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of James Shepard-Kegl, Esq.
>> Sent: 06 August 2005 15:22
>> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Deaf opposition to SW
>>
>> Sandy,
>>
>> Perhaps you might ask whether English should be written.  Of course, the
>> response would be a bemused look at such a silly question.  Why?  Because
>> everyone knows that English is written -- why my grandparents wrote it
>> (and
>> for those of us who can trace back to colonial America (not me) their
>> grandparents, too.)  Why, English was always written (maybe not quite
>> true,
>> but who cares), always will be....
>>
>> It occurs to me that if Deaf schoolchildren learned SignWriting without
>> realizing that their school curriculum was somewhat unique in that
>> respect,
>> well ... those children might also react in a with a quizzical, bemused
>> look
>> to the question of whether a sign language should have a written form.
>>
>> Old habits die hard.  And new points of view only become much later to be
>> regarded as obvious truths.
>>
>> -- James
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> on 8/6/05 6:39 AM, Sandy Fleming at sandy at scotstext.org wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Adam, Val and List!
>> >
>> > I've had a few discussions of SignWriting with Deaf people and signing,
>> > hearing parents of Deaf children.
>> >
>> > I invariably find myself running straight into arguments against 
>> > writing
>> > sign languages - nearly everyone objects to the idea to start with - 
>> > but
>> > for those involved in Deaf culture I've discovered that one argument in
>> > favour of writing sign languages always works, and that's the equality
>> > argument. Recently I was trying to put the case for SignWriting to a
>> > hearing woman who is learning BSL because she has a Deaf child who has
>> > just started at a full-BSL school. She shot down every argument for
>> > having SignWriting in the school, but once I started talking about it 
>> > in
>> > terms of equality she started agreeing with me and even wondered if the
>> > teachers at the school might be interested.
>> >
>> > Why should the Deaf write their languages? ...because the Hearing write
>> > _their_ languages. It's about equality.
>> >
>> > But written sign language doesn't capture the full aspect of the
>> > language ...but neither does written oral language. It's about 
>> > equality.
>> >
>> > But Deaf people can record their language on video nowadays ...so would
>> > the Heaing put up with having to use a tape recorder all the time? It's
>> > about equality.
>> >
>> > But really, what's wrong with video? ...it's only one medium. Oral
>> > languages work in all mediums, so should sign languages. It's about
>> > equality.
>> >
>> > But Deaf children can learn from books in English ...so would it be
>> > better if English people learned from books in Chinese? It's about
>> equality.
>> >
>> > ...and so on!
>> >
>> > I'm not saying that any of this is a new idea, just that I've found 
>> > that
>> > equality issues as an argument really work where other arguments fail. 
>> > I
>> > should emphasise the importance of actually using the word or sign
>> > "equality" in such arguments! People support equality.
>> >
>> > Sandy
>> >
>> > Valerie Sutton wrote:
>> >
>> >> SignWriting List
>> >> July 20, 2005
>> >>
>> >> On Jul 20, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Adam Frost wrote:
>> >> I have actually done a research on this topic for a paper in school.
>> >> I found that most Deaf didn't like the idea of SW not mainly because
>> >> they feel that it can't capture the full aspect of the language
>> >> (although it is a strong argument that some have), but that SW would
>> >> cause hearing people to have a lessened view of ASL as a language,
>> >> and it would also separate Deaf from hearing people even more. I
>> >> personally don't agree with any of that (of course, or I wouldn't be
>> >> here now would I. LOL!)
>> >> -----------------
>> >>
>> >> Adam and Everyone -
>> >>
>> >> They are talking out of ignorance, Adam! I believe it is a weak
>> >> argument. They obviously have not tried to learn SignWriting, and
>> >> they are against the new idea, without really learning it first. We
>> >> can write sooo much detail and capture the nuances of ASL far more
>> >> than either the IPA or written English captures spoken English...and
>> >> we are not hurting ASL to write it, only enhancing it...
>> >>
>> >> The only criticism that I care about, are from those people who
>> >> really have taken the time to learn and use SignWriting - your
>> >> opinions matter because you know what you are talking about...but
>> >> anyone can criticize something they do not know, to avoid having to
>> >> take the trouble of learning it...There are still people who talk
>> >> against using computers, afterall, and it has been decades since
>> >> computers have come into everyday life here -
>> >>
>> >> And I know some smokers, who still argue there is no proof that it
>> >> can hurt your health...so some people do not like change and they are
>> >> afraid of it...
>> >>
>> >> An article to read about this issue...
>> >>
>> >> http://signwriting.org/about/questions/quest021.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Val ;-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>