AW: [sw-l] Re: AUSTRALIA Sign for Australia - black line etc

[Ingvild Roald]

Actually, even if I've never tried the 'underline' for proper names, I think
some sort of marker is a good idea. We may go all the way back to the
Egytian 'cartouche' for Faraos' names, and even today all (most?) languages
that use the Latin alphabet, will use a capital for a proper name. True,
some will use it for more that the proper names, like for all nouns
(German?) or for derivates of the proper name (English), but at least this
use of a typographical marker makes the proper name stand out, and you may,
as Stefan says, be excused if you do not know that proper name right away.
So some sort of symbol could be used.


Ingvild




>From: "Stefan Wöhrmann"<stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE>
>Reply-To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>Subject: AW: [sw-l] Re: AUSTRALIA Sign for Australia - black line etc
>Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:35:53 +0200
>
>Hi Valerie and everybody, -
>
>sorry for the delay -
>
>first of all - You are right Valerie - of course this line is not a
>shoulder
>line -- on the other hand it isn´t a marker for a noun either (smile)
>
>Well what is it? ha ?
>
>Valerie your guess is almost correct - ..
>
>When I started to learn SW in 1999 I followed an idea of James Shepard-Kegl
>to underline proper names -
>
>In the meantime we get so used to it and I am still convinced that this is
>a
>wonderful support for any fast and easy reading of SW-documents.
>
>Once you get this information - that it is a proper name of a place or
>person - it is not your fault if you do not know this sign. So you need
>additional information ... in order not to get confused with other signs
>that will mislead you. More of that You can ask yourself whether you know
>what person, town, river, country the scribe is signing about.
>
>
>Ingvild and Valerie - I would like to swear (smile) that there has been
>never ever the chance of any confusion with shoulder lines or punctuation -
>if the reader is informed about the strategy.
>
>Valerie wrote: " I personally would never underline a sign like that,..."
>...
>" So I actually did not like that line underneath to show nouns,
>because I don't think, that in everyday documents we underline or
>mark the parts in a sentence...that is more for the classroom...for
>Deaf children..."
>
>I feel confused!
>
>Perhaps in my ears of a foreigner this is a pretty dramatic refusal -
>almost
>kind of devaluation
>
>Hm - ok - Somehow I feel a little bit sorry to practice a spelling-style
>that is so much against your attitude.
>
>But it works so wonderfully. And I guess not only within the field of deaf
>education ;-))
>
>
>Stefan ;-))
>
>
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>[mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton
>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. Juni 2005 18:14
>An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Re: AUSTRALIA Sign for Australia - black line etc
>
>SignWriting List
>June 2, 2005
>
>Ingvild Roald wrote:
> > The full black line should be the shoulder line seen from 'behind'. If
> > seen from the top, I thought there should be either a beak in the line
> > (like there is for the handshapes), or a circle representing the
> > head. Or
> > am I wrong?
>
>Hello Everyone, Ingvild, Lucyna, Antony and Stefan -
>I didn't want to answer Lucyna's question about why Stefan placed a
>line underneath all his signs in the attached example, because I
>assumed Stefan would answer the question...but now I feel I should
>step in...
>
>Years ago, James Shepard-Kegl in Nicaragua, and Stefan in Germany,
>started using a line underneath any sign that is a noun, or a proper
>name. The reason? I believe it was because they are teaching Deaf
>children and they needed a way to teach grammar to their students.
>And since they were using SignWriter DOS and typing SignWriting from
>left to right, the line was not confused with other punctuation or
>shoulders...
>
>I personally would never underline a sign like that, because I write
>in vertical columns, and those lines could be misunderstood as the
>Period, or end of sentence marking...And I agree, Ingvild, that it
>could be confused with Shoulder lInes too...
>
>So I actually did not like that line underneath to show nouns,
>because I don't think, that in everyday documents we underline or
>mark the parts in a sentence...that is more for the classroom...for
>Deaf children...
>
>So this is Stefan's diagram...it shows signs written for his Deaf
>students, with underlining to show nouns...
>
>Stefan - if I have misunderstood what you wanted, please forgive!
>
>
>
>
>
>