[sw-l] POLAND doubts about the strike symbol + werb/noun

[Honza]

Hi again,
at first I forget to write this:

1) Lucy I can't agree with your first rule. In CZJ and I guess also in
other languages one sign has often more than just one meaning in Czech
(oral language).... but I guess you made in your first rule some mistake
because in second rule you write "Polish synonyms for that are just one
sign are written separately"

2) there is also (I guess) international problem - how to write
equivalents of "Deaf signs". It is hardly one word... as anybody know.

3) about rule 5 - yes that is what I mentioned first. In english it is
easy - there is just one word - Czech, Polish.. - meaning both.
So I thing, considering what I write first (bellow), we should put in
SignPuddle both separately - 1]Cechy 2]cesky (in the basic form by your
rules)

Honza

...


Hi Lucy,

thanks for your reply.
I thing the same about general forms of words.

Just now I was thinking of signs that means both (nouns, werb) etc.
I think that signs having more meanings (not only nouns+werb) should be
in SW in all meanings separately (considering SW mailing).
But also if you look in any dictionary, you are glad to find there all
meanings of words.
I hope if you are searching some signs (by signs, not words) in SW
puddle, you can find there e.g five same signs with differend meanings.
Also when searching by words.

Honza

Lucyna Dlugolecka wrote:

>> Hi Lucy,
>>
>> we have same sign in CZJ as in PJM. I don't use #, but just *.
>> see czech sign:
>> http://signbank.org/signpuddle/sgn-CZ/search.php?sign=pracovat&search=*&type=
>>
>> (it is not written there as PRACE, but PRACOVAT (werb)
>>
>> btw. Lucyna, I like to ask you (and also I think mostly non-english
>> users of SW) about something differend.
>> We, same as you, have signs, which means both - werb and noun (or
>> more). How do you label this signs? (werb / noun, both) or do you
>> write two signs? One with werb label and second with noun label?
>>
>> thanks
>> Honza
>
>
> Hi Hozna -- that's a problem, indeed. Well, I have assumed a few rules:
> 1. Each sign has one equivalent in Polish.
> 2. Polish synonyms, for which there is one sign in PJM, are entered in
> SignPuddle separately.
> 3. According to Rule 3: all the Polish equivalents are entered in
> their basic forms, i.e.
>    - nouns and personal pronouns in the nominative
>    - adjectives, demonstratives and possessives in the masculine
> gender in the nominative
>    - cardinal numbers in the Roman numerals
>    - ordinal numbers as adjectives in the masculine gender in the
> nominative
> 4. Derivates from verbs or nouns which are signed basically in the
> same way these verbs or nouns are, are enetered separately only if
> they (the derivates) are commonly signed in the meaning of the
> derivate form. It's difficult to explain, I myself rely on my feeling
> here. For example, both the signs PRACA (work) and PRACOWAĆ (to work)
> are often used in their "Polish" meanings. Moreover, many sign verbs
> are done by a longer movement than sign verbs are. So, I entered
> PRACA, PRACOWAĆ and PRACOWAĆ_2 but no PRACOWNIK (a worker) as the sign
> is the same as PRACA but used more rarely in this meaning.
> 5. However, there is also a problem with adjectives that are derivates
> from proper names. For example, CZECHY (Czech Republic) and CZESKI
> (Czech). The words are signed in the same way -- should I enter the
> sign twice? I did but I'm not sure it's right.
>
> Honza, I have noticed that you enter several meanings to one sign in
> SignPuddle, for example TY-TA-TO. In the beginning I was doing the
> same but then realized it was difficult to write an email in SW using
> Polish glosses as I had to write the glosses just as they are entered
> in SignPuddle. Plus, if you look for TO in your SignPuddle, you don't
> see it where it should be in the alphabetical order but you have to
> look for TY first.
> So now, I do everything to make the searching easier.
> I have a Polish mailing list we discuss sign language, Deaf and SW
> issues and I'll try to disuss the problems there too.
>
> Lucyna
>
>
>
>