Request for Research Data

[Stuart Thiessen]

See comments below ...

Stuart

On 4/16/06, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
> SignWriting List
> April 15, 2006
>
> Stuart Thiessen in Iowa wrote:
> > Thank you for the question for clarification. I am not really looking
> > for "simple" signs. I am looking for signs which are easily written
> > because it is clear from the rules how to write it. For example, the
> > ASL sign DEAF is an easy sign because the rules are very clear on how
> > to write that particular sign. It is unlikely that we would differ ...
> > much ... in how we write that sign. Preferably the 5 example easy
> > signs should at least have some contact and/or movement involved in
> > the sign. The signs themselves may be very complex, but the way to
> > write it is clearly defined for the writer.
>
> OK. That is really a question then, as to whether the SignSpelling
> Rules are clear or not.
>
> It sounds like a study of the application of the Spelling Rules and
> whether they work or not, and where are the exceptions?
>
> I would suggest first reviewing SignSpelling Rule 1 and 2
> (I know you know them already ;-)
>
> SignSpelling Rule 1 starts here...
> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less063.html
>
> then read all the web pages inbetween until this last page:
>
> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less074.html
> (SignSpelling Rule 2 finishes on this web page)
>
> and then take a bunch of signs and try to apply the Spelling Rules to
> them, and find which ones fit well, and are easy to follow the rules,
> and which ones have other issues...

Yes, I am interested in seeing how the SignSpelling rules are applied.
I am interested also to see what exceptions if any are out there. I
will certainly be including the spelling rules you have developed in
the process of my research to see how actual writing compares. Maybe
we find that in certain situations, the rules create more problems
than they help. In other cases, we may find that the rules help us
solve problems because they give us good guidelines when trying to
compose the sign.  For those situations with exceptions, it will be
helpful to try to undersand why the writer decided to go in a
different direction than the rules.

> >
> > The other 20 example signs I am asking for involve more complexity in
> > how we would write it. It may be an issue of the rules being unclear
> > or an issue of the number of symbols or the placement of symbols in
> > order to transcribe that sign.  I am assuming that these particular
> > signs will likely come up only in actual usage rather than dictionary
> > forms. For example, AIRPLANE-FLYING as a classifier is probably a
> > pretty easy sign to write, but to write AIRPLANE-LANDING might be a
> > little less easy. Or AIRPLANE-FLYING-OVER-LAND is probably more
> > difficult than AIRPLANE-FLYING. (I haven't had a chance to see if
> > these are in the ASL SignPuddle or not, but if they are not, I will
> > add them on Monday so you can see what I mean.)
>
> Sure. That sounds like a good idea. Looking through Sign Language
> documents is another way to find signs to study...
>
>   For example, this web page gives you some signs to look at:
>
> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/grammar/adverbs09.html
>

I am planning to look through all the writing that I can find. The
more data, the merrier! ;-)

>
> >
> > I realize some of this I could do through a check of the SignPuddles,
> > but I am also interested in seeing what the users consider to be
> > difficult signs. Perhaps I might not see it as difficult but someone
> > else might feel that way. I still would like to see that perspective.
> > That perspective is something I wouldn't get if I just went through
> > the dictionaries myself.
> >
> > If you would rather just send me a page or so of SW text that you have
> > already written with some signs circled to let me know which ones were
> > challenging and which ones were not, that is fine also. The more data
> > I can get, the better for my research.
>

Here's where English gets imprecise. My "You" here is actually plural
addressed to the List as a whole. :-).  But, Valerie, maybe you have
some documents that you have received you think might be good examples
of complicated signs that you have encountered in working with people
on spelling issues. That would help as well.

>
> You know, I don't think I am qualified to answer this research
> question...I am too involved with the building of the writing system
> to have a perspective on it..I know of areas that I feel the system
> is weak, and could maybe be improved...but is that the same question?
> Not really...
>
> Sounds like a good study and I look forward to learning more about
> your findings...smile...I hope others can get involved ;-))
>
> Val ;-)
>
>

Well, I hope that you all will be able to assist me. I'd like examples
from as many sign languages as possible. My study is not limited to
ASL only. If you do send me a sample from your sign language, a
translation or a gloss would be greatly appreciated. So I can give the
sense of what it is saying when using it as an example.

Thanks again for your questions! :)

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Stuart Thiessen
Des Moines, IA