Request for Research Data

Tue Apr 18 17:04:22 UTC 2006

Right Stuart,
   I got my address line tangled.  My apologies.
   sincerely yours, Frank
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stuart Thiessen" <thiessenstuart at gmail.com>
To: <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [sw-l] Request for Research Data


> Hi, Frank! I got this email in response to an inquiry of mine on the
> SignWriting list.  Did you intend to send this to the SignWriting
> list? Just wanted to check in case you inadvertently sent it to the
> wrong list or in response to the wrong email.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stuart
>
> On 4/17/06, Frank <frankbyrom at isp.com> wrote:
> > Dear Barbara Snyder,
> >    Thanks for your last note to me.  I toyed with the ideas (and an
outline)
> > of a sarcastic response that would make your next dental cleaning
> > appointment superfluous; but choose to attempt being candid in a soft
shoe
> > routine.
> >    I inquired, Barbara, could anyone refer me to good printed material
that
> > would aid ASL study beyond the basic level.  Notice , please, that Dr
Jemina
> > in Australia recently placed an open invitation for ideas for "DISTANCE
> > LEARNING" techniques.  She's noted in a letter that she teaches on the
> > Interpreter level of Signing. Do you notice a significant difference
between
> > my inquery and Dr Jemina's query?  Certainly I specified Printed
material,
> > and she left the media open; but  the purpose was clearly the same,
> > Distance Learning beyond the entry level of sign.
> >    My note you took offence with was my reparte to being savagly
attacked
> > with a debate team maneuver; I was assaulted Rhetorically.  I pray you
will
> > read the next 2 paragraphs carefully, for the material is not such as is
> > usually found in conversation.
> >    My interest was in identifying reliable printed material to encourage
> > growth in understanding of the beautiful language we call Amislan.  I
never
> > at any point wrote anything whatsoever about excluding personal contact
and
> > Sign transactions from my studies.  Your comment was , "Why Frank do you
> > want to learn Sign without using it?" ( I summarize your content)  The
> > interesting followup of your slur was that OdeeOdee (Barbara O'Dea)
stated I
> > had never answered you question, "Why Frank do you want to learn Sign
> > without using it?"
> >    YOU, Barbara Snyder, said learn Sign without using it.  I never at
any
> > time said this, or implied it.  Next you began to attack the idea YOU
> > introduced as foolish. If you feel its its foolish, I suppose it is
foolish,
> > to you; but you introduced the idea, not I.
> >  [[[First you introduce an idea you scorn, you attack your own idea; and
you
> > pretend that I proposed the idea.  The Rhetoric is good, unless your
debate
> > opponent sees through it.  A debate team member proposes a foolish idea,
> > asserts the opponent had said it, then demolishes the idea saying how
stupid
> > the opponent is for saying such a foolish thing.]]]
> >    Notice that Barbara o'Dea was taken in by your Rhetoric.  OdeeOdee
said
> > in her  letter, "Why didn't Frank answer the question?.
> >      There was no question Barbara Snyder.  You tried to put your own
words
> > in my mouth, then demanded why I had said what I did not say.  My
reaction,
> > I confess was instinct.  You attacked me Rhetorically.  I was furious.
The
> > letter you called panegyrics  was actually not a bad letter at all.  I
> > regret that I left out an idea.
> >    The greater part of conversation is listening.  Hearing meaning, and
> > thinking with another is the art of spreading more light than heat in
> > conversations. Like Sign, this art must be practiced.
> >    Sincerely yours, Frank
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Valerie Sutton" <sutton at signwriting.org>
> > To: <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 10:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [sw-l] Request for Research Data
> >
> >
> > > SignWriting List
> > > April 17, 2006
> > >
> > > Stuart Thiessen wrote:
> > > > Yes, I am interested in seeing how the SignSpelling rules are
applied.
> > > > I am interested also to see what exceptions if any are out there. I
> > > > will certainly be including the spelling rules you have developed in
> > > > the process of my research to see how actual writing compares. Maybe
> > > > we find that in certain situations, the rules create more problems
> > > > than they help. In other cases, we may find that the rules help us
> > > > solve problems because they give us good guidelines when trying to
> > > > compose the sign.  For those situations with exceptions, it will be
> > > > helpful to try to undersand why the writer decided to go in a
> > > > different direction than the rules.
> > >
> > > Hello Stuart!
> > > I am enjoying reading your thoughtful messages...an interesting
project.
> > >
> > > The problem is that most writers are writing SignWriting without
> > > realizing that there are SignSpelling Rules. So the only accurate way
> > > to judge the question above is to study those writers who have the
> > > same training...and have written for about the same length of time.
> > > If you have a group of people who all have learned the SignSpelling
> > > Rules, and have tried to apply them accurately following the rules,
> > > and then later they chose to write a certain way...that is a real
study.
> > >
> > > But if you are basing a beginner's writing, who has never even been
> > > told there are SignSpelling Rules...and you look at their writing as
> > > if they made a choice, when they had no choice to make, because they
> > > didn't know there were SignSpelling Rules to begin with...then the
> > > study is not an accurate one...
> > >
> > > but it is hard to find people all at the same writing level...
> > >
> > > It is similar to people who have never seen SignWriting at all, who
> > > believe it is See Signs, or who say it is changing ASL, but they have
> > > actually never looked at the writing system in their lives...To give
> > > their opinion equal credence, to another person who has studied the
> > > system well and can read and write it, would not be a good comparison
> > > either...
> > >
> > > SignWriting is unique in history in one respect...There are a lot of
> > > people learning it from the internet, who have never met another
> > > person who knows SignWriting, and their knowledge of reading and
> > > writing the system is as good as our internet lessons are, and they
> > > are far from perfect...
> > >
> > > When the DAC used to come over to my home, we had such a rich
> > > experience together...we were a team and we really worked hard to get
> > > a good writing system, but I am just learning myself how to
> > > communicate some of our writing to others on the internet..in this
> > > rather impersonal world...
> > >
> > > I am hoping that in time, video conferencing will become so easy that
> > > one-on-one teaching will be easier for us to do over the internet,
> > > and that should help...
> > >
> > > Val ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------
> Stuart Thiessen
> Des Moines, IA
>
>
>
>