Writing mouthing of words with SSW

Adam Frost icemandeaf at YAHOO.COM
Sun Feb 26 21:58:54 UTC 2006

-----Stefan Wöhrmann wrote-----

Hello Valerie, Adam ... sw-list members

- thank you very much for your comments! 

Just to avoid any misunderstanding - of course we know in addition to what I
call voiceless articulation lots and lots of other mouth gestures, ...
Of course we use classifiers as well ...and what you describe about ASL - 

>I didn't think that you did misunderstand. ;-)

The problem with this issue of voiceless articulation is that somehow people
dislike to accept that it is to be seen  here and there. And I get the
feeling that it is not wanted! Just as if signing without implementation of
any words of the hearing society is somehow "better signing". 

>Your feeling are justified, at least for US Deaf. Many Deaf hear do view not using English while signing is "better signing." My guess is that it is a form of rebeling against so many years of oppression by the Hearing society.

I personally do not care but I observe (or at least try to ) as open minded
as possible any SL performance and if there is something like this
"mouthing" well I think it should be a part of the transcription. 

>That is what makes you such an impartual
>transcriber. I like seeing what you transribe
>because there are times you see things that I
>would have over looked because I am ignoring
>"English mouthing" and miss other things like

On the other hand - you can bet that it depends on the dialog partner! And
even my transcription depends on the reader. Higher competence in both
language systems will lead to less Mundbilder.

>I wonder if we are talking about two different
>forms of writting and if it makes any difference.
>You seem to be talking about transcribing while I
>am talking about writing straight from my
>thoughts. You write what you see; I write what I
>think with most important information to convey
>the signs that were never actually signed. Does
>this make a difference?

Bye for now

Stefan ;-)) 

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
[mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton
Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Februar 2006 19:07
An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Writing mouthing of words with SSW

SignWriting List
February 26, 2006

Hello Adam and Stefan!

Adam Frost in California wrote:

> Val,
> You explained it beautifully. And those two ways that you showed  
> are call sandwiching (sign with fingerspelling) and expansion  
> technices of ASL. The latter is used among Deaf to Deaf  
> conversation more often than the first since English is not  
> considered very important to ASL. Sandwiching is used when the  
> English word is important (like for education if Deaf to Deaf).

Thank you, Adam! I did not know the term sandwiching...that is a new  
term for me...thanks for informing us of this!

> My expansion might be a little more, depending on the Deaf and how  
> much the idea is important. For example, I might go into the idea  
> that a ship is large and metal and usually used by the navy, and a  
> boat is smaller and usually made of wood. Or it might be bar none  
> to where I just sign BOAT for both if it isn't at all important.

Yes...exactly...it is this part of ASL that is sooo hard for those  
who are new to the language, but it is also the wonderful visual  
nature of these descriptions that make ASL such a beautiful and rich  
language...oftentimes there is no English translation possible that  
can match the visual accuracy of these classifiers...so there is  
nothing to mouth...

> However, what would be more important is this example "The ship is  
> blue. The boat is white." in ASL would be the comparision. Ship (or  
> BOAT as it might just be signed) would be placed on one side,  
> discribed as blue (and anything else needed) and boat would be  
> placed on the other side of the signer and discribed as white.

Yes. In SignWriting,

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