facial expressions

Sat Jul 8 21:11:18 UTC 2006

Val,

we dont need any "the deaf' people's biggest friends" - youre one of
us :-) - you have done so much for our signed languages by giving us
the written form.

dont worry about ur ASL - there are many deafies whose ASL is worse
than your ASL - and I was impressed with your ASL - u didnt use the
wrong signs etc for instance you signed the "mailing list" the right
way - many deafies wont do it the right way - they would sign it as
"post-it shopping-list", you know? :-)

Yes, this lady teacher - im not surprised - i did see your signwriting
years ago but I wasnt convinced by this - until I met Kathleen and
Sara in Dublin and they gave me their email address in English/Dutch
and Sign-Writing (I thought Kathleen was deaf, Sara hearing!) - and I
was puzzled by the sign-writing - and they explained - they caught my
imagination since then :-)

If it wasnt for Kathleen and Sara, ESWO won't be born that day :-)

And other things wont happen - for instance, Thierry won't be
convinced that SW is of some benefits.

Shane

On 08/07/06, Valerie Sutton <signwriting at mac.com> wrote:
> SignWriting List
> July 8, 2006
>
> >> you can be assured that facial expressions are very important to us
> >> all over Europe.
> >>
> >> Its just that many non-deaf professionals have failed to put the
> >> stress on the facial expressions - that 80% of the language is in
> >> your
> >> face - and I am glad youre one of the few non-deaf professionals who
> >> realises how important the facial expressions are to one's signed
> >> language :-)
> >>
> >> Shane
>
>
> Hello Shane, Stefan, Ingvild, everyone!
>
> Thank you for these comments. 80 percent on the face? wow...that is
> really a lot isn't it? I didn't know that statistic but it makes sense..
>
> Did you know that I started writing facial expressions first, before
> handshapes?...later I found out that most people wanted handshapes
> first, so I placed them first in the IMWA but originally I had
> planned to place Facial Expressions before handshapes in the IMWA
> because they seemed more important to me...
>
> Yes Facial Expressions are very important to all Sign Languages of
> Northern Europe and everywhere...That is why it is so great that you
> are starting to use SignWriting in your country now, so that Deaf
> people can start writing their own documents, including the Facial
> Expressions that they feel are important. Darline, an ASL Deaf
> native, chose to write different facial expressions than some
> linguists would have chosen...that was my point.. that when Deaf
> people start writing their own language, they can pin down what is
> important and what is not...
>
> And I don't want to speak for any of you...let me just tell you a
> side story...
>
> When I went to the NAD Conference recently I was nervous...and my
> friends helped me feel brave again. Why was I nervous? Because I was
> afraid my ASL has a hearing accent and I wanted so much to represent
> SignWriting from the Deaf perspective...which I simply cannot because
> I was born hearing...but deep underneath I am the Deaf people's
> biggest friend...some may not realize that...and I know that...that
> is why I am so grateful to Stuart, Philippe and Adam for representing
> all of us at the NAD... and Shane...you would have loved it! I felt
> so loved when I arrived there...and there were no problems and my
> fear was not necessary! And I embraced old Deaf friends and I felt
> really accepted and appreciated...
>
> This was such a positive experience at the NAD that I feel that, with
> the leaders of the Deaf Community working with hearing people like
> myself, as a team, we really can accomplish something...
>
> smile...
>
> But guess what? Your work in Europe in Summer 2005 had an influence
> on our acceptance at the NAD Conference!
>
> There are several stories about that, but here is one connected with
> Facial Expressions:
>
> At the NAD I went to different Exhibit booths, and I stopped at one
> for parents of Deaf children who use American Sign Language. The
> teacher at the booth was Deaf . I found out later from Adam, that she
> is well known in the Deaf Education profession.
>
> I started to tell her about SignWriting, assuming she did not know
> about it, only to find that she stopped me immediately, and she said
> in ASL....
>
> "OH. I know SignWriting!" with a big grin! I said "Really"...How?"
> did you find it on the internet?" I asked.
>
> "Oh no!" she said "I personally saw a keynote presentation by a
> teacher in Germany at the Maastricht Conference for Deaf Education in
> 2005, and I was stunned at the success with the Deaf children in the
> German teacher's video presentation"...
>
> So I explained that I knew Stefan and yes...that is an amazing
> presentation...and she said in ASL to me "Oh. It was more than just
> an amazing presentation. It changed my mind about SignWriting because
> I could see that it could be used in different classroom settings in
> different ways!"..."and, she said, the facial expressions can be used
> in different ways for storytelling, or for education, and that is
> what really impressed me!"... (I felt so proud to know you, Stefan!!)
>
> So we started to talk about the importance of writing Facial
> Expressions! Thank you, Stefan, for giving me such a positive
> experience!
>
> She then this Deaf professor invited us to write an article for her
> Deaf Teacher's publication here in the US...so I had planned to tell
> you all about this later. So Summer 2005 in Europe is having a
> positive effect on Summer 2006 in the US!
>
> Thanks again for your comments -
>
> Val ;-)
>
> ----------------
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2006, at 12:58 PM, Shane Gilchrist O hEorpa wrote:
>
> > Val,
> >
> > im in Northern Europe myself :-)
> >
> > When Stef gave his talk on the "mouth patterns" at last year's ESWS,
> > several participants disagreed with him in private and came to me
> > about it - i had to explain that at Stef's school, they have a strong
> > oral policy where children are encouraged to use their Spoken German
> > and Stef cannot go and rebel against the system or he ll lose his job
> > :-)
> >
> > you can be assured that facial expressions are very important to us
> > all over Europe.
> >
> > Its just that many non-deaf professionals have failed to put the
> > stress on the facial expressions - that 80% of the language is in your
> > face - and I am glad youre one of the few non-deaf professionals who
> > realises how important the facial expressions are to one's signed
> > language :-)
> >
> > Shane
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/07/06, Valerie Sutton <signwriting at mac.com> wrote:
> >> SignWriting List
> >> July 8, 2006
> >>
> >> Thank you, Erika, Stefan and Ingvild!
> >> This is good to know...you never know because I do get some people
> >> complaining privately about too much email and I certainly respect
> >> that too...but hopefully people can learn how to filter their email
> >> so only some messages that they really are interested in, will be
> >> there for them..smile...
> >>
> >> Yes...the issues of facial expressions are fascinating because the
> >> native Deaf who were writing our first long documents by hand back in
> >> the 1980's chose different facial expressions than a lot of linguists
> >> would have assumed...and then in the 1990's Darline and Kevin and
> >> Dave all did the same and so I feel there is something to this...
> >>
> >> On the other hand I also can see, because Stefan and Ingvild educated
> >> me to this fact, that northern Europe might be different...so we
> >> cannot make a blanket statement that all countries or all cultures,
> >> or even all documents within one culture, will choose the same facial
> >> expressions...I believe it may be quite varied depending on the
> >> purpose of the document...documents can be targeted to different
> >> audiences...smile...
> >>
> >> Val ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jul 8, 2006, at 12:24 PM, eghoffma at UMICH.EDU wrote:
> >>
> >> > I just wanted to also note that I find these discussions
> >> > fascinating. It's so interesting to watch different ideas about
> >> > literacy and script emerge. For example, I've been following the
> >> > discussion about facial expression and audience with great interest
> >> > so I'd hate to lose the chance to observe the editing of Jack and
> >> > Jill.
> >> > Best,
> >> > Erika
> >> >
> >> > Quoting Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE>:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Valerie and listmembers,
> >> >>
> >> >> I am sorry to tell you that I feel surprised to read this message.
> >> >>
> >> >>> From my point of view it would be a pity to miss these fruitful
> >> >>> discussions
> >> >> which will lead to some kind of spelling agreement. And it is very
> >> >> much this
> >> >> process that goes along with creating a new published document.
> >> >> While you
> >> >> are discussing I myself try to solve the problem my way or try to
> >> >> figure out
> >> >> what might probably look different in the end ... So this reading
> >> >> of these
> >> >> editing - messages are a great opportunity to learn!!
> >> >>
> >> >> I guess that other sw-list members follow these discussions with
> >> >> great
> >> >> attention and interest as well.
> >> >>
> >> >> So all I can tell - I am still very much interested to develop a
> >> >> higher
> >> >> level in spelling, and SignText Editing and creating documents
> >> >> with other
> >> >> programs compared to SW44 --
> >> >>
> >> >> The number of emails should not be a critical aspect since anybody
> >> >> could
> >> >> press the delete button so quickly if he is not interested in this
> >> >> message -
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> What do you think?  Can you change your mind?
> >> >>
> >> >> Stefan ;-))
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> >> Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >> >> [mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von
> >> >> Valerie Sutton
> >> >> Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Juli 2006 18:51
> >> >> An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >> >> Betreff: [sw-l] Editing SignWriting Literature, email overload and
> >> >> schedules
> >> >> ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> SignWriting List
> >> >> July 7, 2006
> >> >>
> >> >> Dear SW List Members!
> >> >> I can see how much email we all have. It has increased lately.
> >> >> Sometimes the List works well. Sometimes email is lost. Lots of
> >> >> information is flowing, but just like computers, our brains can
> >> >> become clogged too!
> >> >>
> >> >> I am going to try to manage better now...so that all our work with
> >> >> SignWriting is more peaceful...
> >> >>
> >> >> Cherie and I can edit her work off the List now, privately.
> >> That way,
> >> >> we can finish the stories quietly and post them as finished
> >> stories
> >> >> on the web for all of you to read and enjoy...
> >> >>
> >> >> If others want me to edit your work, I am happy to do it too,
> >> >> privately off the List...I am creating a calendar with my
> >> >> schedule...so you can see when I can schedule working with you
> >> in the
> >> >> future...
> >> >>
> >> >> I will always be here, and you are welcome to post anytime...and I
> >> >> hope you will!
> >> >>
> >> >> And questions about spellings are excellent...I am only taking the
> >> >> editing of literature offline, to lessen the email load...
> >> >>
> >> >> Have a wonderful weekend everyone!
> >> >>
> >> >> Val ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa D.D.
> > Sign Language Centre Belfast Trust
> > 15 Church Street
> > Belfast BT1 1PG
> > Northern Ireland
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

-- 
Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa D.D.
Sign Language Centre Belfast Trust
15 Church Street
Belfast BT1 1PG
Northern Ireland