Charles....Sorting Dictionaries ;-)

Thu Mar 23 00:00:58 UTC 2006

Thanks a BUNCH.

  Charles

Steve Slevinski <slevin at signpuddle.net> wrote:
  Hi Charles,

SignPuddle 2.0 also has the SignSpelling Sequence available. I've 
created a dictionary for you to use and loaded it with 136 signs from 
the SignPuddle 1.0 dictionary.

I'll send you an invitation to become an editor for this dictionary to 
you can add the SignSpelling Sequences for the signs I added.
http://www.signpuddle.org/dictionary/sgn-BR

-Steve

Charles Butler wrote:
> Just went through the Guidance on 2004 and it is clear and very well 
> matched to what I have. I just need to get my stuff on SignBank.
> 
> Charles
>
>
> */Charles Butler /* wrote:
>
> I've got to go through the signs on the Brazilian SignPuddle and
> ensure that none of them are pure graphics (about 1/3 of them
> are). I wouldn't mind if Steve simply removed the
> graphics/non-SWML them and I started over. I tried to get them
> all at one point but failed miserably in reconstruction. I've got
> to reload a lot of them. I tried, at one point, to ensure that I
> had at least one sign per handshape to make it a good start but
> haven't had the time (working two jobs).
> 
> Charles
>
>
> */Valerie Sutton /* wrote:
>
> SignWriting List
> March 21, 2006
>
> Hello Charles and Everyone!
> Many thanks for this question, Charles!
>
> I know you hav! e an excellent dictionary and did so much hard
> work. Everything you mention below can be done in SignBank. So
> whenever you feel ready, I can teach you how to add your signs
> to SignBank, from SignPuddle. Once you have the signs added to
> SignBank, in the SignBank Editor program you will tell the
> program what symbols within each sign, you want to sort first,
> second or third...that is called a SignSpelling
> Sequence...there is a Spelling column and you tell the program
> which handshape starts the sign etc etc...and everything is
> placed in a sequence as you mention below...the cont! acts,
> the location, the depth, the height...if you feel you need all
> that detail you can place it in there, or you can choose a
> very simple Spelling sequence...then once you have saved all
> the SignSpelling sequence-data in SignBank, you can then sort
> dictionaries by either the Roman alphabet or the
> Sign-Symbol-Sequence...and so you can print vocabulary lists
> or complete dictionaries, in a completely bi-lingua! l or
> multi-lingual way...so it is a flexible tool and you tell it
> what you want...
>
> Do you have some signs ready? Do you want to start to add them
> to SignBank now?
>
> Val ;-)
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 21, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Charles Butler wrote:
>
>> I asked the same question Steve as I am sorting for a
>> multilingual dictionary in ASL, Libras, English, and Portuguese.
> 
> I started with my corpus of 750 signs and began to sort them
> using the Sign Writing for Everyday Use as a guide, and
> Valerie's article as part of the process. In so doing, we
> will need:
> 
> 1) A set order of handshapes withi! n the basic 10 groupings.
> 2) A set order of orientations within the basic 6
> 3) A set order of rotations within the basic 8.
> 4) A set order of contacts
> 5) A set order of movements
> 6) A set order of spatial locations
> 7) A set order of body contacts
> 8) A set order of facial expressions
> 
> And imbedded in the above, what one does with two hands in a
> sign, presumably start with the dominant hand, sort through
> the above, add the second hand, and sort through the abov!
> e. ! I did that with my corpus of 750 and was able to get down
> to granular between the sign "confusao" and "complicado" where
> the only differences are intensity and speed. In my
> dictionary, I placed smooth before quick, but others might do
> differently. 
> 
> complicadocomplicado confusãoconfusao
> 
>
>
> */Steve Slevinski > >/* wrote:
>
> Hi Val,
>
> Thanks for starting a message on terminology. I'm not
> using the
> terminology correctly, so this is very helpful.
>
>
>
> I'm a bit confused by equating the roman alphabet to
> SignWriting. The
> roman alphabet! is a sequence of ordered symbols.
> SignWriting is a
> system for writing signed languages. I think the roman
> alphabet is
> similar to the IMWA. And I think that SignWriting is
> similar to what is
> taught in English class.
>
>
>
>
> I'm confused by what SignSpelling actually means. Is
> SignSpelling what
> you use, what you do, or w! hat you get? Is SignSpelling
> for writing or
> sorting? I thought that SignSpelling was a subset of
> SignWriting that
> encompasses how to write sign and how to sequentially list
> the symbols
> in a sign for sorting.
>
> The word spelling has 2 definitions. 1) The act of the
> person who
> spells a word. 2) The way a word is spelled. It seems to
> me that
> SignSpelling is the system of rules that a person uses
> while he is
> spelling(1) a sign which results in a spelling(2) of a
> sign. Spelling
> is both his action(1) and his result(2), but he uses the
> rules of
> SignSpelling for guid! ance while he works.
>
> Many definition! s of "spell" mention the sequential order
> of the letters,
> but that is because of cultural bias. The word spell comes
> from older
> words that mean "to talk" or "to relate".
> Middle English /spellen
> /Old French /espeller/
> Old English /spellian/
>
> It is interesting to note that "gospel" is derived from
> "good talk".
>
> If I was! reading a document, I would hope that the words
> (or signs) were
> spelled correctly. With most spoken languages, a word's
> spelling is
> used for sorting because words are spelled sequentially.
> However, the
> symbols in a signs do not appear sequentially, but in 2
> dimensional
> space. I consider this 2 dimensional representation of a
> sign to be the
> sign's spelling. If we had a Sign Spelling Bee, the
> contestants would
> watch a person perform a sign and would probably use a
> blackboard to
> write the sign.
>
> But this brings us to the question of how to sort signs in a
> dictionary. We need a way to write the symbols ! of a sign
> in a
> sequential order. The SignSpelling Guidelines 2004 is a
> great reference
> for this
> (http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs2/sw0145-SignSpelling-2004.pdf).
>
> And that's why I was using the terms spelling and sequence
> when talking
> ab! out a sign. A sign's spelling is what you would find
> in a sign
> language text. A sign's sequence (or sort order) is a list
> of a sign's
> symbols that can be used for sorting.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> Valerie Sutton wrote:
> > SignWriting List
> > March 21, 2006
> >
> > Dear SW List Members!
> > Recently someone asked me to explain SignWriting
> Terminology (the
> > English words I use to describe different aspects of
> SignWriting).
> >
> > So I will create a chart of the terms I use in English.
> I hope we can
> > translate these terms int! o other spoken languages later.
> >
> > Here is a beginning...More will be coming
> later...continued next
> > message...
> >
> >
> >
> >
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