Writing Number 16 in ASL

[Stuart Thiessen]

Well, I wasn't meaning linguistic analysis of reading page numbers. I  
was meaning that, for most unwritten languages, the process for  
determining what symbols to use for writing is usually based on a  
general linguistic analysis of the sounds (or in our case, the  
handshapes and movements) used by the language. Linguists call it a  
phonological analysis. That kind of analysis then helps us to  
determine what symbols are needed and what symbols are not needed. We  
can see what symbols we can predict because of how the sound or  
movement or handshape occurs in context and what we can't predict. We  
can see what sounds or movement or handshapes occur in exactly the  
same places but is still understood as the same sound or movement or  
handshape (like my example about the English letter 't').

Eventually, before ASL can be truly "standardized", this kind of  
analysis is ideal because it will help us develop a good  
standardization based on what ASL is really doing. The same kind of  
process should be used in other sign languages to see what they would  
use. The SignWriting system remains the same. It is the application  
of the SignWriting system to the individual sign languages that I am  
talking about. :)

Thanks,

Stuart

On 22 Aug 2007, at 14:16, Valerie Sutton wrote:

> Hi Stuart -
>
> Ok. We can wait if you want...
>
> For page numbers, it would be nice to get a standard going that  
> will not change the way anyone signs it, nor will it change the way  
> you are writing in your documents...only for tiny tiny little  
> numbers at the bottom of pages!
>
> Regarding linguistic analysis of reading page numbers...I believe  
> that would make a great research project, since we are probably the  
> first to write huge literature documents in Sign Languages, and so  
> this issue is a new one...
>
> Val ;-)
>
> ---------
>
>
> On Aug 22, 2007, at 12:09 PM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:
>
>> I am not sure. It is faster to read the 10 handshape followed by  
>> the 6 handshape. But that isn't how I produced it. And really both  
>> are the formal version of 16. Just one is the slow way to produce  
>> it like you would in a sign language class to teach the sign  
>> itself and the other is what I have observed as a normal everyday  
>> production of it. In my opinion, we want to keep the writing as  
>> close to the actual production as possible.
>>
>> In general, for any writing system, the best approach is to do a  
>> linguistic analysis that helps us see what is predictable and what  
>> is not. What handshapes does ASL really distinguish and what is  
>> not an important distinction? Then we use those handshapes as the  
>> only handshapes we write (except for mime or other unusual signs).  
>> But that kind of decision needs the linguistic analysis because we  
>> need a better idea of how predictable certain handshapes are and  
>> what handshapes are "allophones" (which simply means that even  
>> though we may use several different handshapes, in our minds, they  
>> might actually function as one handshape). For example, in  
>> English, we have several "t" sounds (time, button, butter, but),  
>> yet they are all written with a single letter. Eventually, each  
>> sign language will need to do the kind of analysis I am mentioning  
>> above. That will help them determine which handshapes are actually  
>> needed for everyday writing and which are not. This would form  
>> their "subset" of handshape symbols for everyday writing.
>>
>>
>> After saying all of this, :) I really think we need to see how  
>> other people sign 16. Then, we can see if more use the 10  
>> handshape or the A handshape. We will also want to see if the 10  
>> is facing the signer or facing the side.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Stuart
>
>
>
>
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