AW: [sw-l] Rotation Symbols

Valerie Sutton signwriting at MAC.COM
Thu Jul 5 23:19:54 UTC 2007

SignWriting List
July 5, 2007

Hi Stefan!
Thanks for this message...;-))

On Jul 5, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:
> you know that I have written hundreds of sw-pages with the DOS SW  
> program
> There is a good chance to add over the years a hundred more symbols  
> to the
> symbol set - but do we really need that?

It has good and bad issues, like all things. At the moment, the  
Rotation Symbols are not typed the same as the rest of the Movement  
Symbols. They do not flop properly, when you select one of them and  
then click on the Mirror Key in SignPuddle...they do not flop the way  
you expect...that is because it stems from the old SignWriter DOS  
program and Rich had specially programmed certain symbols, but that  
special programming is gone...the idea of giving all handshapes and  
movement arrows 8-rotations so they are consistent is a good thing if  
you want keyboard consistency, but a bad thing if you are counting  

When I write by hand, I rotate the Rotation Symbols so that the  
forearm line matches the angle of the the computer  
programs have been limiting something that I personally write  
differently by hand...

But you are absolutely correct that we have written without those  
rotations all these years with SignWriter DOS and your wonderful  
documents are proof that that detail was not are  
right about that!

> I am afraid that in the end the whol system will be blown up that  
> nobody -
> besides you and some specialists will know what all the symbols  
> stand for -

So rotating the stem line of the Rotation Symbol to match the angle  
of the arm line will be hard to read? Actually I think it is easier  
to read..but if you feel it is harder of course then you are right...

> SW is a wonderful system to describe movement as people observe  
> movement. We
> will find in any new performance of the same poem, the same story some
> variations in handshapes, movement directions, angles ... but that  
> is not
> needed -

Thank you ;-))

> Just feel free to add more symbols if you feel that this is  
> important - but
> from my point of view I use SW as a way to write down movement in some
> general way. Compared to Spoken Language you will not find too many
> newspapers written in IPA - symbols smile ...

No I believe! That is very true...

> Just my opinion -

I always value your opinion...thanks for the feedback...

> and if you write play this way or that way (forearm parallel to the  
> floor
> indicated by the rotation axis - vs. forearm parallel to the wall) you
> should be able to understand that the scribe tries to put more  
> attention on
> this or that angle but never would convince us that the forearm has  
> to be
> 100% parallel to whatever-- smile.

OK. Great...
> Stefan;-)
> Nevertheless it makes sense to explain to people the concept of the  
> rotation
> symols - with the focus on the baby finger or on the thumb - but  
> there are
> already some good graphics about that in your e-lessons.

The explanation of the thumb and baby finger will continue no matter  
what...whether the symbols are allowed to rotate in 8 positions or  
not...they are still rotations from the baby finger or the thumb ;-)

You just take the arrowhead off of the Traveling Rotation Arrows and  
you have the static ones:

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Even if we wanted to do this, it may not happen for a least a year or  
maybe longer, so we can talk about it later again...The ISWA 1.0 will  
not make any changes to the Movement Symbols...only new handshapes,  
the whitening of the palms and left-arrowheads, and some symbols look  
a little better graphically...If there is ever an ISWA 2.0, it will  
address new Movement Symbols that have ID number changes...which this  
one is...

Anyway - thanks for your feedback!

Val ;-)

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