Rotation symbols stay in one place

Adam Frost adam at FROSTVILLAGE.COM
Sat Jul 7 17:30:44 UTC 2007

Hey Charles,

I finally understand this whole issue. The obstacle that we are facing is
the wording. So the words Arm Rotation and Wrist Flex are guide words. Let's
forget what they mean to us for a second. When there is a movement that you
want to write, first ask yourself if the fingers change location (especially
the middle finger). If the middle finger does not move, but rotate, then the
rotating symbol would be used. If it does move, then you can't use the
rotating symbol and are left with the general arrow or the wrist flex
symbol. So in Cherie's sign for WOW, her middle finger starts out as
pointing to her left, then it moves to point down. That is why an Arm
Rotation would not go here, but it is also not a general movement of the arm
which is hardly moving. So we are just left with the wrist flex. I know that
it may not seem perfect with the wording, but the definition of the wrist
flex is either back and forth at the wrist like what you have in your
attached photo, or a side to side where the palm facing does not change.
This does not matter if the wrist is already flexed to begin with which
would cause the some rotation in the forearm as we are all seeing when we
sign the sign WOW.

I hope this helps.


On 7/7/07, Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at> wrote:
> I have to agree with Cherie here Valerie, you show the same movement with
> the arm forward and with the arm parallel to my body.  Neither is a flex.
> The two movements you attach are both rotations.
> A flex is like "flag" or "yes", is my attached movement correct? I've put
> the same index finger through a flex and a rotation with the arm forward.
> Is this right?
> Charles
> *Valerie Sutton <signwriting at MAC.COM>* wrote:
> On Jul 6, 2007, at 6:58 PM, Cherie Wren wrote:
> > If I hold my forearm out straight in front of me, and point my
> > finger out straight, then turn it over so that the palm moves from
> > facing to the side to facing down to the floor, that is a rotation.
> > (like HAPPEN)
> > If I do everything exactly the same, except my finger is now
> > pointing to the left (at a 90 degree angle to my arm) and the
> > forearm moves exactly as it did above until the finger points
> > down; thats a wrist flex, because my wrist is =flexed=, not
> > because its flexing? Position trumps movement?
> See attached for the sign for HAPPEN. The Rotation Symbol represents
> three palm facings...from white to black. That one Rotation Symbol
> means the movement starts following the numbers 1, 2 and 3. The thumb
> paints the curve in space of the rotation. And the forearm stays in
> one place. There is no traveling of the arm. The only movement is the
> palm changing.
> I did not see this movement in the sign we were discussing. Your arm
> did not stay in one place. It moved down. And the palm facing did not
> change. So it was a different movement.
> The Rotation Symbol rotating the same but with the finger pointing
> left, would look like this:
> The wrist is locked with Rotation Symbols. No flexing or bending of
> the wrist can occur, so your description above is impossible if there
> is a wrist bending down, that is another symbol...
> Rotation Symbols do not write wrist flexes..
> Sorry this has been so hard...
> Thanks for all you are doing, Cherie...
> Sooner or later it will start to make sense I believe...
> Sorry to hear you have to use a wrist brace...
> Val ;-)
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