Vertical Mundbildschrift (?)

Adam Frost adam at FROSTVILLAGE.COM
Sun May 13 00:26:51 UTC 2007


Ok. That helps me understand what Mundbildschrift is. I could possibly be
called Speech Writing. :-) So what I was thinking is called Mundbild, or
maybe called in English Mouth Writing or Lip Writing. Your explanation helps
a lot. Thanks. :-)

Adam

On 5/12/07, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Adam, Valerie and friends -
>
> - hm - what makes things so difficult is the fact that we are dealing with
> completely different writing systems -
>
>
> Mundbildschrift is a system on its own! It describes what you hear!!!!
> while
> a person is speaking!
>
> So Mundbildschrift is a system that is not appropriate for any
> Signlanguage
> performance.
>
> ok?
>
> At best you may want to compare Mundbildschrift with the IPA - the
> difference is that I defined the Mundbilder hat go along with a given
> sound
> of a Spoken Language.
>
>
> What you are thinking of - is what I call Mundbilder in GebaerdenSchrift.
>
> I was told that true deaf story telling style would be performed at its
> best
> without any loans from the spoken language. But SignWriting as a special
> branch of movement writing taught me something different. Obviously there
> are quite a number of SL in the world where some kind of
> loudless/voiceless
> mouthing happens ...
>
> What I did was to accept this! Next step has been to make up standards: So
> I
> startet to take some of the facial expressions for mouth movements that
> had
> been created by Valerie for different purposes -
> For the German branch of SignWriting I can tell that the high amount of
> Mundbilder makes the difference to GebaerdenSchrift.
>
> Now again I defined some mouth movements - going along with possible
> options
> for speaking -but without any sound! And this leads to all the problems
> that
> are to be kept in mind with lipreading.
>
> Just imagine to take a series of fotos while somebody is speaking. What do
> you get? - You get a series of fotos with stills of different lip, mouth
> or
> tongue representations. No imagine you try to guess and write down all
> different possible and meaningfull options ...
>
> So it would no make sense to define a closed mouth as anything else but
> "M"
> in the first place but perhaps "P" or "B" as well -
>
> and so forth
> It is as Valerie already said - as a teacher of deaf children I am looking
> for any tool that allows them to become smart ... smile ... and definitely
> SignWriting or Gebaerdenschrift with the many Mundbilder is a "must" ...
>
> .. And no - I do not prefer vertical writing in my documents - so writing
> the Mundbilder in vertical would not be my problem ...
>
> .... and .. we did some experiments with writing Mundbilder without facial
> circles -- it did not work. The best way for us is to allow the facial
> circels overlap a little bit to indicate that the flow of mouth, lip and
> tonguemovents is just represented in a sequence of artificial created
> stills. All what matters is to allow a very quick and meaningfull reading
> of
> the documents or single signs ...
>
> Hope this helps?
> Stefan ;-)
>
>
>
>
> -----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> [mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Adam Frost
> Gesendet: Samstag, 12. Mai 2007 18:12
> An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Betreff: [sw-l] Vertical Mundbildschrift (?)
>
> I am guessing that Mundbildschrift means something like mouth movements.
> If
> I am right, then this is something on my list to get aquired knowledged
> of.
> ASL also have very important adverbs that are on the mouth.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Sandy Fleming" <sandy at scotstext.org>
> Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 16:38:19
> To:sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] SVG version of our IMWA symbols
>
> On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 08:21 -0700, Charles Butler wrote:
> > Sandy, Valerie, and others.
>
> > The only drawback I see is the Gaebardenschrift methodology for
> > full-mouth articulation as a multiple overlapping head would not
> > easily be possible using this method.
>
> Charles, Val, Stefan,
>
> As you all know, SignWriting was originally written horizontally, but
> vertical SignWriting is now preferred. Fingerspelling seems to be going
> the same way, with a recent suggestion of vertical fingerspelling on the
> list finding approval. After all, once you decide to write vertically,
> anything that's written horizontally within the column is "going against
> the grain" and it should come as no surprise that writing it vertically
> is an improvement.
>
> I would suggest that Mundbildschrift could also better be written
> vertically within vertical SignWriting (see attached diagram and excuse
> the badly-drawn mouths!).
>
> As I've said before, I prefer faces to be opaque so that any background
> doesn't render the expression difficult to read. This seems to work very
> well with vertical Mundbildschrift, as the head circle doesn't interfere
> with any other part of the facial expression and, after the intial
> expression which might contain eyes and nose, only the mouthings are
> shown.
>
> I understand that horizontal Mundbildschrift my be preferred in
> educational texts aimed at helping Deaf children who are learning to
> write in an oral language, but for normal SignWriting texts for everyday
> readers, this seems to me to be a very clear, natural and compact way to
> write Mundbildshrift, and no problems with it going against the grain
> and right out of the column!
>
> To me, MUndbildschrift isn't just an education concern, it's also
> important for everyday SignWriting to show "native" sign language lip
> patterns (such as the "po", "vee", "lum" &c of BSL).
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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