Handwriting

[Kimberley Shaw]

PS - that's a great-looking card by the way; very easy way to show how
2 signed languages vary from one another!

On 12/9/08, Kimberley Shaw <skifoot at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your helpful notes, Stefan!
> When I'm on a real computer, and not reading and writing email from my
> cellphone (as I am right now), I'll be sure to print it out and put it
> with my lesson plans.
> Whew, glad to know my fledgeling teaching instincts aren't completely
> off the mark!
> Best,
> Kim S
>
> On 12/9/08, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kim,
>> another option on a higher level would be to combine different cards - SW
>> -flashcard with foto or graphic of the signer - or later even two
>> different
>> Sign Languages as shown in this attached example. German SL (DGS) and ASL
>> --
>> and you will be surprised to see that participants with only very few
>> experience will understand to remember the signs.
>>
>> continued next message
>>
>> Stefan ;-)
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>> [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Kimberley
>> Shaw
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Dezember 2008 22:09
>> An: SignWriting List
>> Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting
>>
>> Hello all:
>> but what about using handwritten SW with *adult* students of ASL? I am
>> about (for the first time ever!) to teach a short class of
>> intro-to-ASL on a college campus. Since SW has helped me enormously
>> with retaining new vocabulary, I hope it will help my students as well
>> ... I'm imagining a set of "your 1st 50 ASL signs" in flashcard
>> format, and maybe they can transcribe from blackboard onto their own
>> cards (reinforce the new signs!). Or would it be more confusing than
>> helpful?
>> Have any of you attempted to use SW with adult beginners of signed
>> languages?
>> Best,
>> Kim from Boston
>>
>> On 12/8/08, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de> wrote:
>>> Hi Stuart,
>>>
>>> thank you very much for your comment.  I would like to afform that I go
>>> along with your thoughts. One problem – I see – we would not be good
>>> teachers if we think to write by hand is an easy to accomplish task for
>>> children. No it is not true.  SignWriting by hand is difficult and it
>> takes
>>> many many hours of practice and a teacher who enables them to keep
>>> motivated. It is a time consuming and slow – and in a surrounding where
>>> everything and all is oriented towards spoken languge you would not
>>> expect
>> a
>>> child to develop higher skills in an area if there are no adults who
>> really
>>> understand ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And what   you suggest is a brilliant idea – we need to compare the
>> symbols
>>> as they are printed with noble software – and what they look like if
>> written
>>> by hand. That is the reason Valerie that I am so interested in the
>>> first
>>> handwritten documents – .. smile ... just to compare the way other
>>> handwriters tried to find their way to write double circular movements,
>>> hands parallel to the floor, .... smile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attached another handwritten document of a SignWriting enthusiast –
>>> smile
>> –
>>> next to a railway-track
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stefan ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   _____
>>>
>>> Von: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Stuart
>>> Thiessen
>>> Gesendet: Montag, 8. Dezember 2008 18:06
>>> An: SignWriting List
>>> Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Valerie, I understand your point about learning to handprint before
>>> doing
>>> cursive, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But I still believe that one of the barriers to acceptance of
>>> SignWriting
>> by
>>> some people is the fact that it appears to be slow to write by hand. I
>> know
>>> that there is a long history of writing by hand before the various
>> programs
>>> that we have today. My point simply is that the information that people
>> have
>>> now is focused on the computer program which is a very important
>>> element.
>>> But also there is a very important element of having a handwritten form
>> that
>>> is simpler than the printed form and more easily written.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When people can see both styles of writing (printed and written), then
>> that
>>> will open up new arguments for the usefulness of SignWriting in everyday
>>> life.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, I know the ISWA has been your priority for now, and it is an
>>> important
>>> priority. And more is still going on that. This is just something that
>> will
>>> need to be resolved at some point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One suggestion I have is that maybe at some point you introduce
>> handwritten
>>> forms for each of the ISWA symbols. So a person can look up an ISWA
>>> symbol
>>> and see both the printed form and the handwritten form. So as they
>> practice
>>> on the computer or on a piece of paper, they can learn to use and read
>>> the
>>> system both ways.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hebrew, for example, has the same alphabet, but the exact form of the
>> letter
>>> varies depending on which written form of Hebrew you use (Cursive,
>>> Rashi,
>> or
>>> the printed form). (See the chart at
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Like you've said before, it may be that we will have different "fonts"
>>> or
>>> writing styles for SignWriting, but I think it will encourage people to
>> also
>>> write by hand if there is a way to write it simply. Then they start
>>> doing
>>> grocery lists and quick notes to family and class notes and eventually
>>> it
>>> becomes a part of their everyday handwriting strategies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I admit for myself that I rarely handwrite SignWriting because the
>>> printed
>>> symbols just take longer to handwrite. When I do SignWriting, it is
>> usually
>>> only when I use SignPuddle. I would prefer to handwrite more, but I find
>> my
>>> motivation is lower when I have to invent my own ways of writing the
>> printed
>>> forms faster. So when the time comes to show handwriting, I'm less
>>> likely
>> to
>>> convince them on that front.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 10:35 , Valerie Sutton wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SignWriting List
>>>
>>> December 8, 2008
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Andre -
>>>
>>> In a SignWriting curriculum, for children, I would put learning SW
>>> Handwriting in the third year...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just as it explains on these web pages:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs003.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs004.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In any written form, writing in a "faster cursive style" takes skill.
>>> Plus
>>> SignWriting does not have the documentation ready for teaching formal SW
>>> Handwriting...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Therefore, when we were young children learning to write English
>> characters,
>>> we did not start by learning English cursive-handwriting...we started
>>> with
>>> hand-printing each English character carefully, writing them in rows and
>>> rows until we became skilled...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then, after learning how to write in this perfect hand-printing style,
>> after
>>> around the second grade...for me it was in the third grade...I started
>>> to
>>> learn to write real handwriting in school (for English)...so based on
>>> that
>>> experience, I suggest that SW handprinting should be taught the first
>>> two
>>> years of a SignWriting curriculum, and the SW handwriting starts around
>> the
>>> third year in school...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stefan has some experience with this...His student, Eduard, who is
>>> writing
>>> in the picture on the front page of our web site, is a skilled
>>> SignWriting
>>> student, having been in Stefan's classroom for several years...so he
>> started
>>> the handwriting later, after getting familiar with SW in general...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So that is my advice...Your students and teachers are beginners or at
>> least,
>>> in their first year of learning and using SW, so maybe the handwriting
>>> should wait until next year?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But they could try some of these Handprinting techniques right now:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs011.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Val ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 8:05 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Val, Anne-Claude and everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Anny,  I don't ask that you translate a SW handwriting's web pages.
>>> You
>>> translate only two words : handprinting and handwriting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         I mean that I need only a section "Quick dailly writing". I am
>>> writing a LSQ curriculum for a SW writing.  I understand that you need
>>> to
>>> write new books.  No problem.  I am trying  better to describe a SW
>>> handwriting (quick daily writing).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     I believe that Deaf students write a SW handprinting because
>>> teachers
>>> don't know about SW handwriting norms (Quick daily writing).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Hand waving
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     André
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:  <mailto:signwriting at mac.com> Valerie Sutton
>>>
>>> To:  <mailto:sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu> SignWriting List
>>>
>>> Cc:  <mailto:atg at videotron.ca> Gagnon et Thibeault
>>>
>>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:12 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SignWriting List
>>>
>>> December 8, 2008
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Andre and Anny -
>>>
>>> There is no document to translate...smile...but there are web pages.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you follow all the links on this web page:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SignWriting Handwriting
>>>
>>>  <http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/>
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are six sections and each section has several web pages...I do not
>>> know if Andre really needs a translation of those web pages into French?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have nothing else to give you right now, Andre...More books on
>> Handwriting
>>> will have to wait for awhile, since I am so behind on other books that
>> need
>>> to be updated...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you seen the front page of our web site? Stefan's Deaf student
>>> Eduard
>>> is quite an artist with SW calligraphy, don't you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SignWriting HomePage
>>>
>>>  <http://www.SignWriting.org> http://www.SignWriting.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stefan will be sending us more photos of the finished art later...i look
>>> forward to seeing them!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And I believe that Kim from Boston has also done some SW calligraphy...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kim's work
>>>
>>>  <http://www.signwriting.org/usa/massachusetts/>
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/usa/massachusetts/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Val ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Anne-Claude Prélaz Girod wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> andré
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> what kind of document do you need to get translated from english into
>> french
>>> ?!?!?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> let me know
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anny
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 8 déc. 08 à 15:43, Gagnon et Thibeault a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Anne-Claude, Val and everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Anny, I would like you to translate a handprinting and a handwriting
>>> from English to French?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Val, I am writing a LSQ curriculum from grade 7th to 8th  including
>>> SW
>>> reading and SW writing now.  But, I don't know about handwriting
>>> norms.  I would like you to explain me handwriting norms in general.
>>> You
>>> remember that you gave a handwriting course to some participants one
>>> year
>>> ago.  I love learning it.   I don't mean that participants do their
>> homework
>>> but they read only instructions.  Would you give us general explanations
>> or
>>> instructions  of handwriting norms which help me write and explain a LSQ
>>> curriculum including SW writing ? You don't need an explanation of the
>>> handprinting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     André
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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