[sw-l] Sign Spelling Syllables question

Thu May 15 02:03:54 UTC 2008

Hi,
Thank you again!!!!
I'm working on sign language translation for example from SignWriting to english spoken language.
SignWriting is very interesting since it is very easy to learn by deaf community. But the bi-dimentional (two domensions) representation of symbols and the big "Alphabet"="symbols" used make it difficult to use for translation.  I'm trying to find a compact representation to the sign in order to use it in translation. 
So, thoses questions can help me see better:

1- If I ask two signers to sign the word "Interesting". Will they do it the same way?
What are the differences they will introduce ?
2- Do you know if there is research works on translation using SignWriting?

I hope that my messages are clear! Thank you helping me improve my english too :--))
Have a good night,
Hasna
Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org> a écrit : SignWriting ListMay 14, 2008

Hello Hasna!
Thank you for your kind words...

Yes...the SignSpelling Guidelines 2004 manual is quite out-of-date, but it is still online for download. Go to this web page:

Sutton's SymbolBank
http://www.movementwriting.org/symbolbank/

and scroll down. Click on Number 1 to download the manual...

I hope it won't confuse you, since through experience we have learned that location comes later in the SignSpelling Sequence...Through working with people trying to find signs that are sorted by symbols, we found that they look for handshape first, and then movement, but location comes last, when searching for a group of signs...so the location is now moved to the end of the SignSpelling...that is the biggest difference between SignSpellings in 2004 and SignSpellings in 2008...the new 2008 manual will explain this...

meanwhile, the SignSpelling data that is produced in SignPuddle is just providing the sequence of the symbols, without grouping them into "syllables"...knowledge of syllables helps those who are trying to learn how to determine the SignSpelling for a sign, but it was never programmed in our SWML...

Just like in English...if you asked me..."What is the spelling of the world "INTERESTING" I would say:

I-N-T-E-R-E-S-T-I-N-G

I would not say IN-TER-EST-ING, unless I was trying to teach phonics of other kinds of reading techniques...

So technically syllables could be programmed someday...by asking the person who is entering the SignSpelling data to also tell the software where the break is, between syllables...but that is the future...

Why do you need this information? What is your project?

Val ;-)

--------------

On May 14, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Hasna Hocini wrote:

Hello again!
Thank you very much for your answers and for all the information you gave me! 
So much work to do! That's really very beautiful! 
Can you tell me please if the SignSpelling Guidelines 2004 the last one available? 
Thanks a lot!
Hasna
Valerie Sutton <signwriting at mac.com> a écrit : SignWriting ListMay 14, 2008

Hasna Hocini wrote:
I need a file where I can have the SignSpelling Syllables. I found  the sbml file. In this file we find: <Sequence>............ </Sequence> 
it is I guess the signspelling sequence. But I can't find a file with the signspelling syllables. Can you help me with that please. Thank you very much and have a good night, Hasna Hocini

Hello Hasna!
Thank you for this unusual question ;-)

It is unusual because we have never broken down the SignSpelling data into segments called "syllables". Not from a software point of view anyway...as far as i know ;-)

I just completed the International SignWriting Alphabet (ISWA 2008) last Friday. I delivered it to Steve Slevinski, who is developing the SignWriting Image Server and other software, that will bring the ISWA to the general public...

You'll probably be interested in the SignWriting Image Server (http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/swis).  Steve just released the beta.  You can download the project if you want.
http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/swis.zip

Over the next few months, Steve will release more open source software for use, such as SignMaker and SignText.

Steve is currently rewriting SignPuddle to use the ISWA symbol set, rather than the older IMWA symbol set.  It will be able to export data for use with the SignWriting Image Server.

Now that I have completed the ISWA 2008, I plan to do the following:

1. Write a new manual: "SignSpelling Guidelines 2008". This will provide you with important information on SignSpelling rules, including how to add SignSpellings into current SignPuddle software. I will address the issue of SignSyllables in the manual, but that will only be in the manual and not a part of SWML at this time...

2. I need to update our SignBank Desktop Database software to use the symbols in the new ISWA 2008...so that is a big job for me to update SignBank. Once that has been done, I will create a new download for SignBank users...

So I will keep you informed as to when the SignSpelling Guidelines 2008 is ready for download on the web...

If you want to ask me more questions, perhaps I can help you sign by sign...

Val ;-)

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Val ;-)

Valerie Sutton
Sutton at SignWriting.org

1. SignWriting
Read & Write Sign Languages
http://www.SignWriting.org

2. SignPuddle
Create SignWriting Documents Online
http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle

3. SignBank
SignWriting Desktop Databases
http://www.SignBank.org

4. SignWriting List
Technical Support: Ask questions to the List 
http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/swlist

5. SignWriting Literature Project
Writing Literature in Sign Languages
http://www.SignWriting.org/literature

Deaf Action Committee For SignWriting
Center For Sutton Movement Writing
an educational nonprofit organization
P.O. Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA
tel 858-456-0098   fax 858-456-0020
Skype Name: valeriesutton

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