a few things...

Mon Nov 10 22:54:49 UTC 2008

It could be because us crazy Americans can never agree on anything  
until we have had many many years (even generations) of dispute on a  
topic? ;-)

I know that one for Bill Clinton which is related to his lying which  
lead to his almost impeachment. I would still say that is an ad hoc  
name sign for the very same reason that I have never seen that one for  
Reagan (which is cool to see, by the way, but I wonder why it is  
that). What I mean is that most of the younger Deaf generation who  
have never had a reason to talk about these presidents will never have  
known these signs. My younger Deaf brother didn't even know the one  
for Clinton because he was still in diapers when Clinton was president.

Funny that you should mention about Bush. My Deaf brother in law (yes,  
half my family is Deaf) has a sign for Bush, but that is because he  
can't read English too well and fingerspelling goes over his eyes.

Adam

On Nov 10, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:

> I have seen that too. I wonder if there is another factor  
> involved ... ASL seems to have a stronger use of fingerspelling  
> compared to other countries. In the countries that I visited, they  
> avoided fingerspelling as much as possible. If a new important name  
> or concept came their way, they figured out a sign for it. People  
> might have some disagreements about what the sign should be, but  
> they would agree that they needed a sign and eventually find one  
> they liked.
>
> My observations have been that, in the US, it seems that ASL rules  
> say that anything "new" should be fingerspelled until there is at  
> least regional consent on a sign. Some sign names might have  
> regional consensus, but those are not considered standard ASL until  
> it has more national consensus. I could be wrong. I haven't noticed  
> anyone in my area use a namesign for Obama or McCain. Bush probably  
> would not have gotten a namesign since his name only has 4 letters.
>
> I saw this
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>  for Bill Clinton, and this
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>  for Ronald Reagan, but I don't know if they are "final"  
> namesigns. :)  (If you can't see the graphics, just look at Clinton  
> and Reagan in the US SignPuddle.)
>
> Stuart
>
> On Nov 10, 2008, at 16:02 , Adam Frost wrote:
>
>> I had to step back for a minute a realize where this was coming  
>> from because I was just having a discussion with another group  
>> about this same topic. I am trying to figure out how to tell you  
>> what the discussion on the TeachASL list was without sounding  
>> harsh, so bear with me. ;-)
>>
>> First, lets take a look at name signs as they are used and giving  
>> in the US in ASL. A name sign is only used when talking about a  
>> person that has importance in the Deaf community that is not  
>> present. Therefore, a name sign is not just given to anyone (this  
>> also includes people who are in the Deaf community) and given with  
>> great care. This is especially the case when you are dealing with a  
>> name sign on a national level. You may be able to find local  
>> examples that don't follow this, but that will not happen  
>> nationally. These local example are usually "in house" discussions  
>> of a particular person that goes into great length, so ad hoc name  
>> signs are created so that fingerspelling doesn't have to be done  
>> over and over for those people who don't like fingerspelling.
>>
>> Having said that, unless our president elect has done something  
>> that has cause for the Deaf community to not only talk about him in  
>> great length, but also has made a great impact on the community,  
>> there will never be a "final" name sign for him. All of these ad  
>> hoc name signs will disappear as soon as the discussion of him  
>> disappear. Of course, the only other way for this to be different  
>> would be for the Deaf community to become very involved in politics  
>> overnight. And I mean every member of the community, not just a few.
>>
>> If you look back at all of the past US presidents, only Lincoln and  
>> Washington have name signs. Some say that is because Washington is  
>> the founding father and Lincoln was the president during the civil  
>> war that brought the nation back together. Lincoln has his name  
>> sign because he was the president that made it possible for  
>> Gallaudet University. I feel that Washington is a rare ad hoc name  
>> sign by back translation from the state Washington and capital  
>> Washington DC. It is only because there is a state that has a sign  
>> as well as the same name as the president that the ad hoc name sign  
>> is used nationally. (That and that his name is very important in US  
>> history so every school has to talk about him a lot.)
>>
>> Now, I know that it could be said that Barack Obama is a great  
>> impact because he is the first African American to be elected.  
>> True, but that doesn't impact the Deaf community, so that is why he  
>> hasn't received a name sign. So I hope that answers your question  
>> of there being a final name sign for him. And I hope that I haven't  
>> sounded harsh, but it is a little pet peeve that I have so it is  
>> hard not to seem angry even though I am not. :-)
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2008, at 11:58 AM, Peter DeHaas wrote:
>>>
>>> Did anyone ever come up with a final sign name for our new  
>>> president elect???
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Peter DeHaas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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