SignWriting Question...from Deaf Church in Michigan

[SignWriting]

SignWriting List
July 4, 2009

Yes, and this also goes back to what Maria's dissertation is  
discussing, about writing Maltese Sign Language...and trying to find a  
simpler way of writing signs that could become a standard...There are  
different ways to use SignWriting. Some people want to write very very  
detailed, and show the exact ending position of a written sign, and  
other people would write less detail. So when people say that  
SignWriting is either too detailed or not detailed enough, it is not  
really SignWriting itself, but the writer's choice. Choosing to only  
write the beginning position of the sign is tapping into the fact that  
the sign has generally been written with the beginning position only,  
in most ASL documents, so an unspoken standard started for the  
SignSpelling of "GROUP" that we all started to get used to...but that  
is not following the video exactly...but it is following the video in  
other ways...such as the use of the three lanes, and the groups moving  
forward etc...

So in recent years I started to realize that video transcription can  
be handled differently, depending on the purpose of the document...and  
if the purpose of the document is to find a more simplified way to  
read the signs written in the transcription, without being exactly  
detailed as to the signer's personal style, then some writing  
conventions can be blended with following the general grammar of each  
sentence...

That is what Adam was doing instinctively...the more standard way of  
writing GROUP was used, but placed in the grammar and structure of the  
sentence...

I realize that it is impossible to realize all this, if you haven't  
viewed the video, and if one is not familiar with other written ASL  
documents ...but that is probably how standard spellings in other  
spoken languages evolved too..through a gradual step by step  
acceptance of certain writing conventions...then school rooms started  
teaching those conventions and that is why we spell a certain way  
today...

...and the issue, Cherie, of not being able to view the video, was the  
same for me, but Adam's pictures helped a lot!

Val ;-)

----------



On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Adam Frost wrote:

> I knew that someone was going to notice that. ;-) It was hard to get  
> the still as they were, and it is interesting that I was only  
> getting the ending positions. It actually turns out to be that when  
> the hands rotate that they end up down as you see them in the  
> stills. The reason is that when doing the rotation, the person moves  
> his arms out a little making it turn horizontal. I just choose not  
> to write the ending since most people would read it correctly  
> without. (In ASL anyway.)
>
> Adam
>
> On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Ingvild Roald wrote:
>
>> This is clear - but I have one question about the writing, now that  
>> I have ssen the still photos: The orientation of the hands seems  
>> wrong to me, they ought to be horisontal, I think?
>>
>> Ingvild
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Valerie Sutton" <sutton at signwriting.org>
>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:56 PM
>> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
>> Cc: "Maria Ermilova" <mermilova at yahoo.com>; "Jonita"  
>> <JoSignJ at aol.com>
>> Subject: Re: [sw-l] SignWriting Question...from Deaf Church in  
>> Michigan
>>
>>> SignWriting List
>>> July 3, 2009
>>>
>>> Hello Adam!
>>> Thanks for writing this! This answers the Deaf Church team's  
>>> question
>>> about writing many groups...
>>>
>>> See below...
>>>
>>> So three GROUPS are signed in the Left Lane, moving slightly forward
>>> each time...
>>>
>>> Then three GROUPS are signed in the Center Lane, moving slightly
>>> forward each time...
>>>
>>> Then three GROUPS are signed in the Right Lane, moving slightly
>>> forward each time...
>>>
>>> Is this correct? If so, can you help me teach the Deaf Church team?
>>> They are on Skype. Maybe we can make an appointment for you to meet
>>> them to explain it in ASL...
>>>
>>> Ron, can you set up an appointment for us to explain this on  
>>> Skype? Or
>>> are your team members on the SignWriting List?
>>>
>>> Val ;-)
>>>
>>> -----------
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I'd write it in lanes like this:
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It took me some work to get it working. (And to be honest, I  
>>>>> really
>>>>> don't know how I did it. Ha!) The part that is being asked about  
>>>>> is
>>>>> when Jesus commands the multitudes to sit in ranks of fifties and
>>>>> one hundreds. I would read it as 3 groups in the three lanes as I
>>>>> had written before. I wish that I could get stills of what I am
>>>>> seeing, but I haven't figured out how to stop the video at the
>>>>> right times. Partly because he signs the second and third part
>>>>> really fast. Here's the stills that I have.
>>>>>
>>>
>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________
>
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>
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