receptive vs. expressive - history?

Wed Oct 21 19:01:52 UTC 2009

Thank you everyone for your contributions to my question. I will not
include the explanation of the receptive viewpoint - not to confuse anyone
:)
Thanks again,
Maria

> I was attracted to SignWriting with the newspaper and fell in love with
> sign writing at that point.  So 1981 it is, I was in seminary at the time,
> and a lot of things were happening.
> Charles
>
> --- On Wed, 10/21/09, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
>
> From: Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] receptive vs. expressive - history?
> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Cc: "MARIA AZZOPARDI" <maria.azzopardi at um.edu.mt>
> Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 1:19 PM
>
> SignWriting List
> October 21, 2009
>
> Actually Tini and I knew each other since Copenhagen in 1970...isn't that
> right Tini? We knew each other before the first book in DanceWriting was
> published in 1973.
>
> Did we really meet in 1978, Charles? I thought it was in the early 1980's.
> Because I did not start working in the true sense, with SignWriting, until
> 1981. In 1978, we did have correspondence courses in DanceWriting from the
> Boston Conservatory of Music and Tini was one of our students. But the
> SignWriter Newspaper was first published in 1981, and I thought that was
> how we met, Charles? So I thought it was around 1981 or 1982...but my
> memory is poor too! funny isn't it..we are all getting old!
>
> And DanceWriting can be seen as receptive, but actually it is neither
> receptive nor expressive. DanceWriting is taken from the "stage view" and
> adjusts to many viewpoints depending on the choice of the writer...So Tini
> is correct that it can be written expressively and if that is what you are
> doing Tini, that is fine!
>
> Anyway, there is no question that the writing system can technically be
> written from any viewpoint, but Gerard is correct. We have a world
> standard when it comes to SignWriting and we need that for most teachers,
> who are sooo busy and can only handle so much...so when we teach
> SignWriting today, we teach the Expressive. That is what is natural to
> most people. Most people are not writing from videotape. They are writing
> directly in their own sign language...their daily primary language, and
> they look at their own hands and feel their own face, and do not put
> themselves in the position of  an imaginary person facing them...
>
> So everyone is welcome to teach as they wish, but Maria, if i were you, I
> personally suggest teaching in the Expressive for SignWriting...I would
> not throw both viewpoints at beginning students...it is too much for them
> -
>
> Val ;-)
>
> -------
>
> On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Tini Pel wrote:
>
>> You might be right at that Charles about 1978. I sometimes do get mixed
>> up about dates  in my old age.
>> Tini.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21-Oct-09, at 9:25 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, that's a bit of information I have not had, as I learned from
>>> Valerie directly between 1978 and 1981.  We both were switching over to
>>> expressive at that point.
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 10/21/09, Tini Pel <tinipel at onlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Tini Pel <tinipel at onlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [sw-l] receptive vs. expressive - history?
>>> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
>>> Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 9:04 AM
>>>
>>> Hi Charles,
>>> Just a little note:
>>> I write dance writing being behind the dancer, or I become the dancer.
>>> Since  the early ' 70-tees.
>>> Have a great day
>>>
>>> L.I.F.E.
>>>
>>> Tini.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20-Oct-09, at 11:37 PM, Charles Butler wrote:
>>>
>>>> For me, I learned receptive first, so it was literally "write what you
>>>> see" when you are seeing someone else's hands.  Then when they
>>>> switched, I considered it an extension.  I just teach "write what you
>>>> see".  Then receptive is for transcribing something brand new if you
>>>> don't know the meaning, and then expressive when you have moved it to
>>>> your own hands.  Expressive has become the standard for the
>>>> dictionaries and most usage.  Dance writing is still, apparently,
>>>> receptive.  It took me hours to transcribe video tape because I think
>>>> to write what someone else is doing, and then reverse it to my hands
>>>> is the challenge.
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 10/20/09, MARIA AZZOPARDI <maria.azzopardi at um.edu.mt>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: MARIA AZZOPARDI <maria.azzopardi at um.edu.mt>
>>>> Subject: [sw-l] receptive vs. expressive - history?
>>>> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
>>>> Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 5:13 PM
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering what to do with the receptive and expressive view
>>>> points,
>>>> when teaching signwriting.
>>>>
>>>> As teachers of signwriting, would you include this explanation - or
>>>> would
>>>> presenting the two possibilities create a problem that might not be
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> I've found that when I explain how to signwrite the different
>>>> orientations
>>>> I explain the 'expressive viewpt' and never include the receptive
>>>> view, so
>>>> as not to 'teach' them something that I will later have to unteach.
>>>>
>>>> do you find that explaining the expressive view and leaving out the
>>>> 'receptive' writing, acceptable?
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> Maria
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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>>
>>
>>
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