Greetings from Cordoba, Argentina!

Fri Sep 11 23:08:54 UTC 2009

SignWriting List
September 11, 2009

Hello Roman, and Stephen Jones and everyone who knows each other ;-))

I understand, Stephen, that Roman participated in your course at the  
SIL workshops this summer? That is great...

Today I received an email from a person from Paraguay...someone new I  
have never met before, and when I looked in the Paraguay SignPuddle  
and saw all the many signs you and your classroom added over the  
summer I was really impressed...Thank you for adding so many signs to  
the Paraguay SignPuddle...I believe that interest in SignWriting from  
Paraguay is starting now because of your work....

And now Roman and others are adding new signs to the Argentine  
SignPuddle Online...very exciting indeed ;-)

So now, Roman, back to your email...Thank you for this interesting  
message. We will find the best way for your group to work....so let's  
keep talking about it...

First, I just went into the administration behind SignPuddle and made  
you an Editor of the Argentine SignPuddle, so technically you can edit  
other people's entries. We usually have several editors of each  
SignPuddle Online, so if Bethany or someone else, who is knowlegable,  
would also like to be an Editor I will be happy to do that for you. Be  
sure to Login every time you work in SignPuddle to get the editor's  
features...

Second, SignPuddle Online has two kinds of files...OPEN to the public,  
and PRIVATE web puddles for group projects. The OPEN puddles are free  
for anyone to enter signs in...so sometimes new students will add  
signs and perhaps they are not perfectly written, but still a  
wonderful learning tool for all classrooms to have a free and open  
SignPuddle. The PRIVATE puddles cost $200 per year...although we have  
donated some in the past...our non-profit organization could certainly  
use the income, but you are not required to do that at all...most  
people just use the OPEN SignPuddle because it is free, and also easy  
for others, like your students or co-workers, to start using  
immediately. And since you are now an Editor, you could technically  
change other people's misspellings in Spanish as you mention below...I  
looked at some of the other registered users of the Argentine  
SignPuddle...people can edit their own signs that they add themselves,  
but they cannot change anyone else's signs unless they are an  
editor...anyway...one of the writers in the Argentine puddle is from  
northern Europe and another from Brazil, so perhaps they wouldn't mind  
if you correct their Spanish words ;-))

As an Editor, you are also welcome to go in and label some of the  
other signs there, the Buenos Aires dialect, but if you are not sure,  
then that is a true complication...

So if you feel that Cordoba Sign Language is a truly separate language  
from Buenos Aires, and it might very well be, a little like Catalan  
Sign Language in Barcelona, Spain versus the Spanish Sign Language  
from Madrid...then I will be happy to create a second SignPuddle just  
for the Cordoba dialect, that is OPEN to the public. There might be  
some confusion by users in the beginning, if they don't know the  
difference themselves...smile...

If you are interested in a PRIVATE web puddle, or possibly working on  
your computer desktop without an internet connection, here are  
products you can buy:

Private Web Puddles (numbers 2-6 on this page)
http://www.signwriting.org/shop/shop01.html#Software

But I am assuming you want to work free, so tell me what to do  
now...since you can now edit the online entries, do you still feel the  
need for two sign language dictionaries from Argentina?

And what are other SW List members opinions on the subject of dialects  
and dictionaries?

Val ;-)

------

On Sep 11, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Roman Caceres wrote:

> Hello Val!
>
> It is our pleasure as well, to meet you.... :-)
>
> According to the research of Gallaudet University, "Cordoba Sign  
> Language" (LSC) is a dialect of "Argentine Sing Language" (http://library.gallaudet.edu/x16911.xml 
> ). Thirteen years ago they helped to produce the only LSC dictionary  
> ever done. The title of the dictionary is: "Diccionario de Lengua de  
> Señas de Córdoba". (Cordoba Sign Language dictionary).
>
> Because I added the signs inside the Argentine dictionary I used the  
> tag "Cordoba dialect".
> If I would use a separated dictionary I would title  it "Cordoba  
> Sign Language", following our actual dictionary. I would use the  
> same Argentine flag.
>
> I am unable to tell you exactly how different the Sign Languages are  
> between the Cordoba and Buenos Aires given that I am not from Buenos  
> Aires.  My exposure to the signs in Buenos Aires is strictly through  
> my SL professors here in Cordoba.
>
> I understand that keeping the Cordoba and others dialects of  
> Argentine Sign Language together would be useful to share signs in  
> common. However, my only concern is that before I started to work  
> with Sign Paddle, someone added some signs to the Argentine  
> dictionary. Some of them have glosses that are misspelled. Some of  
> them have English glosses. It is a little bit confusing to have  
> Spanish and English glosses listed together.
>
> I appreciate your time, help and commentaries!
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Roman Caceres
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Sutton" <Sutton at SignWriting.org 
> >
> To: "Roman Caceres" <rcaceres at fjclink.com>
> Cc: "Fegley, Bethany" <bfegleycaceres at fjclink.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Greetings from Cordoba, Argentina!
>
>
> Hello Roman and Bethany!
>
> It is a pleasure to meet you....;-)
>
> Yes, of course I know Stephen Jones. I hope you will join our
> SignWriting List? I always ask everyone who writes to me to join the
> SignWriting List, so others will benefit from our conversations. The
> SignWriting List is our technical support group, and are linguists and
> signers from around 20 countries, who all use SignWriting and we learn
> from the information we share...I will send you an invitation to join
> the List next message.
>
> It is exciting to see signs added to the Argentina dictionary. Thank
> you for doing that!
>
> Shall we consider the current Argentina Dictionary the official
> dictionary for the Cordova dialect? for now at least, since we do not
> have any signs from Buenos Aires in there, right?
>
> I see you already placed the name "Dialecto Cordobés" in the
> dictionary Terms section, which is excellent. This means you can
> search for Dialecto Cordobés, in the Search by Words section, to find
> all the signs in the dictionary that are from the Dialecto Cordobés.
> This way, several dialects can be added into the one dictionary
> without disturbing each other...
>
> Is the Dialecto Cordobés a completely different language from the
> Buenos Aires dialect? The fact that you call them dialects, and not
> unique sign languages, makes me think they are simply extreme dialects
> of each other?
>
> In Spain, they have two unique sign languages...Spanish Sign Language
> from Madrid and Catalan Sign Language from Barcelona. They are
> considered two separate languages, that are not dialects of each
> other, and so we created two separate SignPuddle areas for those two
> sign languages.
>
> But when it comes to dialects, it becomes exhausting to have too many
> completely separate dictionaries online, unless you really do not want
> to ever use the signs from Buenos Aires? Are there no common signs
> between the two dialects?
>
> If not, then of course I can create a second SignPuddle for the Buenos
> Aires dialect later, as soon as someone needs it... It takes me
> several hours of work to create the new empty file for you...I have
> promised Iceland I will create a new SignPuddle for them soon, so I
> could do your other dialect SignPuddle at the same time.
>
> Do the two regions have their own flags? In Belgium, we have two
> separate SignPuddles for the Flemish Sign Language and the French-
> Belgian Sign Language, and we used their regional flags to help people
> navigate..
>
> Hope we can continue this conversation on the SignWriting List, and
> thanks once again for writing...
>
> Val ;-)
>
> Valerie Sutton
> Sutton at SignWriting.org
>
> ---------
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:01 AM, Roman Caceres wrote:
>
>> Mrs. Sutton,
>>
>> My name is Roman Caceres, I am from Cordoba, Argentina.
>> My wife and I took Sign Language Phonetics at SIL-UND this Summer.   
>> Our instructor was Stephen Jones (I think you know him). We learned  
>> SignWriting.
>> We are really interested to use it for our work here in Cordoba.
>> I am adding signs to SignPuddle in the Argentina section, but I  
>> had  to specify that the signs belong to the "Cordoba dialect",  
>> which is  quite different from Buenos Aires (the Argentine National  
>> Capital).
>> I was wondering if it would be possible to have a separeted  
>> section  for the Cordoba dialect.
>>
>> Thanks for considering my petition.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Roman & Bethany Caceres
>
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