invisible person in ASL storytelling...

Mon Sep 21 18:14:22 UTC 2009

SignWriting List
September 21, 2009

Hello Natasha, and everyone -
Yes. This is a good point. I was answering a specific question about  
how to write one or two signs, but it was taken from a much larger  
document that was a transcription from a videotape of ASL  
storytelling...so you are right that if the ASL is written accurately  
before those signs occurred in the document, there would be eye-gaze  
and other ASL grammar details that would automatically give the reader  
the markers needed to read the ASL, just as the ASL is understood in  
person...the "invisible person" would be established with eyegaze and  
other factors...

And Ingvild, I agree that this shows the value of writing sign  
languages, because we are required to write these grammar details to  
make sure the reader knows what is happening...just as individual  
words in a spoken language document can be taken out of context, so  
can individual signs...we need to read the whole document to know what  
is being said...

Thanks for the great discussion!  Val ;-)

-------

On Sep 21, 2009, at 4:13 AM, Natasha Escalada-Westland wrote:

> Wouldn't the "invisible" person have already been mentioned or  
> implied by the eye-gaze of the signer slightly previously in the  
> story?  If these subtleties are missed by the translator, it would  
> appear strange or incomplete(invisible) to someone reading it later.
>
> Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Certified Interpreter - NIC
>
> --------

> From: iroald at hotmail.com
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Subject: RE: [sw-l] invisible person in ASL storytelling...
> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:57:06 +0200
>
> This is something I will have to discuss with my Deaf friends
>
> Ingvild
>
> -------

>
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:43:46 -0700
> From: chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] invisible person in ASL storytelling...
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>
> There are, in fact, comic books in Brazil that are being captioned  
> in Sign Writing, so perhaps that is the end result, one ends up  
> having a captioned story of several people, but not the natural  
> language which tells stories by body postures.
>
> If one is talking about a bowl of soup, for instance, one can set up  
> the bowl, hold it in place with one hand, and add all sorts of  
> ingredients, but there is not an "invisible" bowl hanging there, it  
> is a placeholder created by one's hand.
>
> Charles
>
> --- On Fri, 9/18/09, Cherie Wren <cwterp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> From: Cherie Wren <cwterp at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] invisible person in ASL storytelling...
> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 3:33 PM
>
> You are no longer showing the language when you do this, though.   
> Now you are creating some sort of pictorial story in a strange set  
> of symbols, but it is not sign language anymore.  If that is your  
> aim, then get an artist to do a picture-story/comic book.
>
> cherie
>
> From: Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com>
> To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:46:03 AM
> Subject: RE: [sw-l] invisible person in ASL storytelling...
>
> I would have to agree, one could show two people on the road as an  
> interpreter, or one could show two people as a language, which means  
> the interpreter is not the person being conveyed, but the two people  
> he or she is talking about.
>
> An interpreter can convey by posture that there are three people  
> present, but if one writes out the story, one can flesh out the  
> details and actually show the three people involved, putting each of  
> them in a different lane, just as one one in Dance Writing.
>
> --- On Fri, 9/18/09, Ingvild Roald <iroald at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Ingvild Roald <iroald at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sw-l] invisible person in ASL storytelling...
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 10:37 AM
>
> Actually, I do not agree with Val that the job is to write what is  
> seen on the video. That will not get the message of the original  
> story across. This is maybe one of the reasons we really need to  
> sign languages: that the video translation is not a full translation  
> form English (or Greek) to ASL, but a partial one. With the written  
> form, we are able to bring in the second person, not visible in the  
> video.
>
> Thus, I prefer the first version, with the 'invisible' person present
>
> Ingvild
>
>
>
> > From: sutton at signwriting.org
> > To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:20:23 -0700
> > CC: josignj at aol.com
> > Subject: [sw-l] invisible person in ASL storytelling...
> >
> > SignWriting List
> > September 16, 2009
> >
> > On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:32 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
> > > I am watching a video (if you can see the video it is the Bible,
> > > Mark 07_31-37 at .43 on the counter). Jesus is healing a Deaf/Mute
> > > man. -- First Jesus sticks his fingers into the mans ears and then
> > > removes them.---- So how do I show to whom Jesus to doing this  
> to...
> >
> > Hello Jonita and everyone -
> > You are writing from an ASL videotape that Deaf Missions made of the
> > Bible. The signer is Patrick Graybill, and he did an excellent
> > description of Jesus placing his index fingers in a Deaf man's  
> ears to
> > heal him...when he signed this story, Patrick did not have a real
> > person to place his index fingers into...he had to show this story  
> in
> > ASL, without anyone else standing in front of him...
> >
> > So your job is to try to write what you see Patrick do on the  
> video...
> >
> > Everyone sees things a little differently, but here is my writing of
> > this position and movement, plus attached are clips from the video  
> of
> > Patrick...
> >
> > How did I write this?
> >
> > 1. First I place the shoulders and head facing the left front corner
> >
> > 2. Second, I write the hands in the sign over to the left side of  
> the
> > head and shoulders, like this:
> >
> >
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>
>
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