signspelling sequence

[Honza]

Hi Steve,

thanks for this example. It is good enought as example for more
diffifult "sequence".
I believe it will be also good for corverting to hamnosys. There is
"only" hanshapes positions that have to be counted from signwriting.

Carles or Steve - are there any similarities between "sequence" and
signwriting "inline code" (can be seen in url of creating sing)

thanks
Honza


On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Charles Butler
<chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Honza, Val, and Steve,
> I think in terms of "Sign-Symbol-Sequence" we have to carefully state that
> this is new territory for any signed language.  Even the most ancient of
> signed languages (like Tibetan) did not have a standard way of writing the
> languages down for reading and writing and dictionaries.
> We are creating the use of the "Sign-Symbol-Sequence" for many purposes.
>  Looking up signs individually in a dictionary that does not contain a
> spoken language is one very strong use.  Using that sequence to sort for
> comparing with another writing system, like HamNoSys is another.  Both
> approach the sign as a whole, what do you record first, what do you record
> second, what do you record third, as that is the way a computer thinks.
>  People see a hand and a motion as one thing, but then a camera sees many
> images of that hand and many pieces of the motion to be able to sequence it
> for an avatar, a different purpose altogether.
> If the Sign-Symbol-Sequence can help one analyze the parts of a given sign
> of handshape, motion, contact, speed, sequence, and so forth, then that can
> be compared between SignWriting and HamNoSys as both are analyzing a sign in
> parts.
> A motion picture has many more thousand parts to analyze, so it serves a
> different purpose.  It, however, can use the avatar of a hand to move that
> hand along the curve of a SignWriting curve, so knowing, from the code, that
> this hand moves along this approximate curve can enable SignWriting and the
> Sign-Symbol-Sequence to help one program an avatar, but an avatar needs more
> information, or at least more analysis, to show a complete sequence in
> motion.
> Charles
>
> ________________________________
> From: Honza <honza at ruce.cz>
> To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 8:36:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence
>
> Hi Val and Steve,
>
> I have already seen that "analyze etc.."
> But what is the right goal of "sequence". Was it created just for
> sorting signs by that in dictionaries or are there more purposes?
> I wander if there are rules how to write sequence correctly.
>
> I am now working on automatic convertor within signwriting and
> hamnosys. I thought it could be useful for that.
> I don't know if anyone has ever try to do it.
>
> Honza
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
> wrote:
>> SignWriting List
>> February 10, 2010
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:53 AM, Honza wrote:
>>> sorry If you explain this already, but I haven´t foud it in recent posts.
>>> Can you explain me why in SignPuddle is SignSpelling and Sequence?
>>> Are there any rules for writing Sequence?
>>> it is important.
>>
>> Hello Honza!
>>
>> A SignSpelling is the way a sign is written...the way the sign looks, in a
>> visual cluster, when we read signs.
>>
>> A SignSpelling Sequence is for computer-sorting of signs in dictionaries.
>> Which handshape starts the sign? Which symbol ends the sign? This is needed
>> because in dictionaries, we look up by Sign-Symbols. There are two important
>> processes needed to sort dictionaries by Sign-Symbols. First, you need to
>> know the sequence of symbols within each sign. Second, those SignSpelling
>> Sequences are then sorted by the SignWriting alphabetical order of symbols
>> in the ISWA, which I call the Sign-Symbol-Sequence.
>>
>> Here is a small booklet called SignSpelling Guidelines 2008. I actually
>> want to re-write and expand upon this manual. It is based on my experience
>> with sorting around 3000-4000 signs, and printing the listing of the signs
>> sorted by Sign-Symbols, and what i personally found was true when people
>> tried to find a sign in the listing...I know there are many theories on what
>> the SignSpelling Sequence rules should be, and I am open to all of
>> them...this booklet just shows my experience with looking up signs...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Also Steve Slevinski has placed some cool new features in SignPuddle.
>> Under each sign or document in SignPuddle, you will see an Analyze
>> link...Click on that Analyze Link. Try it with both a single sign-entry in
>> SignPuddle, and also with a real document with sentences in SignPuddle.
>> Click on Analyze and then click on Sort (see screen capture attached). It
>> will show you the "automated" SignSpelling Sequences for each sign in that
>> document...Automated SignSpelling Sequences are the computer's best-guesses
>> as to what the SignSpelling Sequence should be, based on the ISWA, but if a
>> person has manually changed the SignSpelling Sequence in SignPuddle, then it
>> will show that...(I believe that is true...is this correct,
>> Steve?)...wonderful software for all of us to analyze signs and documents!
>>
>> Val ;-)
>>
>> see attached...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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