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SignWriting List
February 24, 2010

Hello Charles!
Thank you for this message, and for all you have done, to work with SignWriting and the linguistic database project, SignTyp. I too am happy that SignWriting might be used in the SignTyp linguistic database...for some linguists, it might be the first time they have ever seen SignWriting, and for others, it may show them that the system can write the details needed...so many thanks for all you do - Val ;-)

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On Feb 24, 2010, at 7:42 AM, Charles Butler wrote:

> In a dictionary lookup, I would think that the Sign Symbol Sequence would be invaluable.  That is where detailed information is needed.  In everyday handwriting of a spoken language, you use only the features necessary to distinguish one word from another, and in Sign, it is one sign from another, the Sign Symbol Sequence is a sorting program, just as the Roman, or Arabic, or Hebrew alphabet has a set symbol sequence to find a particular ward.  
> 
> Linguists are looking for a categorization way, and SignWriting has developed its 10 groups of characteristics to divide a given sign into categories.  Group 10 gives fine motor distinctions which may not often be needed, but speed and manner are just as much a part of sign as a handshape.  I can think of two signs in LIBRAS that differ only in speed and manner and in handwriting would have to be distinguished.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> Complicado is quick, confusion is slow, otherwise they are the same handshape and the same movement.  
> 
> I am very glad that we are putting together a Linguistic program - SignTyp with SignWriting to show what characteristics are describable in a given sign "utterance" that linguists, until now, are saying are "too complicated" to note on paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Ingvild Roald <iroald at hotmail.com>
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 7:40:25 AM
> Subject: RE: [sw-l] SWML site
> 
> Of course  I thought of the group 30 (the very last one)
> 
> I have no example at the moment, and I would certainly not use these symbols in ordinary writing - but it might be that to clearify a spesific point it would not be enough to have the symbol in the spelling sequence - like which hand is where at what time. I am thinking specifically of real Deaf storytelling, where the movements of hands, eyes, brows, head, neck, ... all hangs together to tell the strory. As a tool to analyze this, to make it appear on paper rather than just on video, I think that SignWriting would make a great tool - even if I am not a lingusit myself. The reasons I get from sign linguists for not using SW, is partly that signing is too rich, and therefore cannot be put on paper. But this makes real research hard and the resuls hard to justify - other languages are put to paper and extra symbols are used to show pitch, speed, emphasis, unusuall pronounciation etc, symbols that are not used in the everyday writing of said language (or of any language). 
> 
> Ingvild 
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 06:28:10 -0600
> From: slevin at signpuddle.net
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] SWML site
> 
> Hi Ingvild,
> 
> Do you want to use the sorting symbols in the Spatial SignSpelling rather than the SignSpelling Sequence?  Can you show an example?
> 
> In talking with Val, we agreed that the sorting symbols were for extra detail in the sequence for sorting and should not be used in the spelling meant for reading.
> 
> We can look at SymbolGroup 30 to help discuss this issue.
> http://signbank.org/swis/iswa/60832_sg.html
> 
> Regards,
> -Steve
> 
> 
> Ingvild Roald wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> I am into another project: I will write a paper on how SignWriting can be used for research. For this I will propose that the sorting symbols can be used when more detail is needed than would normally be used in everyday writing. So even if I fully agree that these symbols (group 10) should not be used in normal litterature or in the dictionary lookup (exept as an addition, to mark a distinction from another, almost similar sign), they may give linguists needed tools for writing exactly what is signed, as a basis for analyzing. Do you disagree on this?
> 
> Ingvild 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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