SWML site

Charles Butler chazzer3332000 at YAHOO.COM
Sat Feb 27 01:21:29 UTC 2010

I would start with the hand and its orientation, then its location and contact, then movement, then hand in orientation, chest, and contact.  The hand always comes first.


From: Rachel Channon <rchannon at speakeasy.net>
To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Sent: Fri, February 26, 2010 8:17:47 PM
Subject: RE: [sw-l] SWML site

Hello - I really like the idea of setting up a "default"
SignSpellingSequence.  I wonder if it could be done on the basis of the
order in which the person puts the symbols in the  SignWriting composition
area.  So for a sign like ASL WOMAN where the hand touches the chin and then
the chest, the writer might start by putting a symbol for the face in the
area.  Then they move the hand-orientation symbol to the chin.  Then they
add a second hand symbol at chest level.  Then the default sequence for hand
location would be hand-at-chin followed by hand-at-chest.

(please forgive and correct any terminology errors here).

-----Original Message-----
From: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
[mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of SignWriting
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 10:26 AM
To: SignWriting List
Subject: Re: [sw-l] SWML site

SignWriting List
February 25, 2010

Hello Kate and Steve and Charles -
It is great to see how useful BSW is for programming...

There is one interesting issue I would like to bring up...

Since the SignSpelling Sequences are put in manually by the writer, and
since there are several different theories on what the Sequence should be,
it means that programmers who do not know sign language or SignWriting, if
they depend entirely on the sequences entered by others, may receive an
inconsistent group of sequences....

The ASL Dictionary puddle online is a free and open database that has not
been edited much...Any writer is welcome to add signs and their own feelings
on what the SignSpelling Sequence should be...some people are still learning
to write signs, and others are new to the software and are learning how to
use it, and others are new to adding Sequences...so the inconsistency may be
confusing for your poor avatar! ;-))

And I suspect that the SignSpelling Sequences used for programming an avatar
might be different than the sequences used for sorting dictionaries for deaf
children...because I would assume that the programming needs more detail to
really see the exact location for the avatar, but when deaf children are
looking up signs in dictionaries, my experiences so far show, that detailed
SignSpelling Sequences are not necessary for simple look-ups...however, my
experiences are not a real research study at all...just my guess...so a real
study does need to be done, to find out what theory on SignSpelling
Sequences works best for everyday use, and what is necessary for other
projects, such as programming for avatars...

And Kate...you mentioned you thought it was automatic...Steve is working on
the idea of "automated" SignSpelling Sequences that could be the computer's
"best guess" at the sequence, based on the alphabetical order of the symbols
in the ISWA, and so forth, but then the writer can still go in and change
the automated sequences, when necessary...that will be a WONDERFUL step
forward, because oftentimes the automated sequences are pretty close to what
the writer would have chosen anyway...however...the automated Sequences have
not been programmed yet into SignPuddle, so right now we are required to do
the sequences manually every time we write a sign...

You can find the automated and manually created SignSpelling Sequences for
each sign in SignPuddle right now, when you click on the BSW Analyze button
under each sign in SignPuddle...

And when SignPuddle 2.0 is released, we will be able to have SignSpelling
Sequences in the signs inside documents too, so we will be able to search
documents for symbol frequency and so forth...I wish those could be
automated as well...

so for your avatar work, I might do another sequence than I would for deaf
children -

for your avatar work, I would put in more detailed Location Markers from
Group 30, in the sequence, so your avatar would know some details of
location for exact sign production...although I may be wrong...maybe your
animation can move just as well without it and if so that is super!

Val ;-)

On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:58 PM, Steve Slevinski wrote:

> Hi Kate,
> Yes, the <seq> tag represents a symbol in the SignSpelling Sequence.  If a
sign doesn't have any <seq> tags in the XML, then the sign entry does not
include a SignSpelling Sequence.  The sequence is manually entered.
> You can use the new SignText online.  I'll have the new SWIS downloads
ready in early March.
> Considering the sign in your email, an ASL puddle sign for deaf, we can
look at it together:
> http://signbank.org/signpuddle1.5/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=5206


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