question for the way to express 'made'

Fri Jan 8 12:18:18 UTC 2010

Cherie,

As I mentioned, BSL doesn't have tense. In telling a story, you simply
state a time (eg LAST-WEEK or IN-THE-PAST or TOMORROW), then that time
applies to everything you sign until you state new time.

BSL does have a lot of aspect, though, ie how an action is carried out.
For example, completed, protracted, interrupted and so on.

Sandy

On Fri, 2010-01-08 at 03:43 -0800, Cherie Wren wrote:
> In ASL the tense is one of the first things stated in a story.  Then
> tense is not restated until it changes.  So if Lourdes set up that the
> story happened in the past at the beginning of the story; "Once upon a
> time" or the equivalent, then EVERY verb from then until it changed IF
> it changed would look like present tense on the surface, but that is
> only because the tense has already been established.  English has to
> state the tense with every flippin' verb.  ASL does not.  (Sorry,
> can't comment about BSL ::smile::)
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>
> To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:59:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'
> 
> I'd agree with Trevor's grammar here:
> 
> PAST FOOD COOK (hold with aspect) FINISHED.
> 
> "PAST" is the time marker (there's no actual tense in BSL) and
> generally
> comes in the narrative before the things that happen at that time
> 
> "FINISHED" (or "BEEN") is the perfective aspect, and follows the verb
> (though not all aspect is handled this way).
> 
> But Shane's:
> 
> FOOD COOK PAST
> 
> isn't wrong, it just needs support from non-manual features, as he
> points out. To me it gives a different emphasis, more on WHEN the food
> was cooked, rather than the actual cooking.
> 
> Does anyone perceive any semantic difference between:
> 
> FOOD COOK FINISHED
> 
> and:
> 
> FOOD COOK BEEN
> 
> in BSL? You'd think that "FINISHED" would have more of an achievement
> associated with it but it seems to me that this connotation is lost in
> using it as a perfective.
> 
> I would love to write some grammar rules for SignWriting BSL: that
> sort
> of thing would help people to write with more confidence, I think, but
> I
> don't really feel qualified.
> 
> Sandy
> 
> On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 22:20 +0000, Trevor Jenkins wrote:
> > Hi Shane,
> > 
> > Interesting. I'd put that BSL time marker earlier. Something like
> > 
> > PAST FOOD COOK (hold with aspect) FINISHED.
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Shane Gilchrist
> > <shane.gilchrist.oheorpa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Dear Gan,
> > >
> > > we dont really have past tenses in the same sense as the English
> > > language - for instance, in BSL (using glosses - sorry!)
> > >
> > > I made food:
> > >
> > > - FOOD COOK^nodding
> > > - FOOD COOK PAST
> > > - FOOD COOK FINISHED!
> > >
> > > non-manual features are very important here.
> > >
> > > Shane
> > >
> > >
> > > 2010/1/6 Gan  Lu <glu at uclan.ac.uk>:
> > >> Hi Charles;
> > >>
> > >>  Thanks for the comment. So do you reckon the past tense is
> necessary here? And if we use "create". should it be 'Created' then?
> > >>
> > >>  Thanks
> > >>  Gan
> > >>
> > >>>>> "Charles Butler" <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com> 06/01/10 1:54 PM
> >>>
> > >> Hmm.  In context the sign, I would think would be either "make"
> or "create".  The tense is carried by the situation.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> create
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Gan Lu <glu at uclan.ac.uk>
> > >> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> > >> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 8:05:15 AM
> > >> Subject: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'
> > >>
> > >> Dear Adam and Valerie;
> > >>
> > >>  I'm implementing the system now. While I have a question:
> > >>
> > >>    why can't we use an ASL gesture to express the meaning of
> 'made' on the first page of the 'Frosty the Snow Man', other than
> using the FingerSpellings to sign these four letters respectively?
> > >>
> > >>    I suppose the reason is because the word 'made' is a past
> tense, and there is no ASL for it.
> > >>
> > >>  The reason I'm asking is my intention is to implement the first
> page as a 4-by-4 output pattern, which are 16 sign-boxes in total
> includes those punctuations. So I'm looking for a way to squeeze the
> word 'made' into a box.
> > >>
> > >>  Thanks
> > >> Gan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
> > >
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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