question for the way to express 'made'

Fri Jan 8 11:43:47 UTC 2010

In ASL the tense is one of the first things stated in a story.  Then tense is not restated until it changes.  So if Lourdes set up that the story happened in the past at the beginning of the story; "Once upon a time" or the equivalent, then EVERY verb from then until it changed IF it changed would look like present tense on the surface, but that is only because the tense has already been established.  English has to state the tense with every flippin' verb.  ASL does not.  (Sorry, can't comment about BSL ::smile::)

________________________________
From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>
To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:59:56 AM
Subject: Re: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'

I'd agree with Trevor's grammar here:

PAST FOOD COOK (hold with aspect) FINISHED.

"PAST" is the time marker (there's no actual tense in BSL) and generally
comes in the narrative before the things that happen at that time

"FINISHED" (or "BEEN") is the perfective aspect, and follows the verb
(though not all aspect is handled this way).

But Shane's:

FOOD COOK PAST

isn't wrong, it just needs support from non-manual features, as he
points out. To me it gives a different emphasis, more on WHEN the food
was cooked, rather than the actual cooking.

Does anyone perceive any semantic difference between:

FOOD COOK FINISHED

and:

FOOD COOK BEEN

in BSL? You'd think that "FINISHED" would have more of an achievement
associated with it but it seems to me that this connotation is lost in
using it as a perfective.

I would love to write some grammar rules for SignWriting BSL: that sort
of thing would help people to write with more confidence, I think, but I
don't really feel qualified.

Sandy

On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 22:20 +0000, Trevor Jenkins wrote:
> Hi Shane,
> 
> Interesting. I'd put that BSL time marker earlier. Something like
> 
> PAST FOOD COOK (hold with aspect) FINISHED.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Shane Gilchrist
> <shane.gilchrist.oheorpa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Gan,
> >
> > we dont really have past tenses in the same sense as the English
> > language - for instance, in BSL (using glosses - sorry!)
> >
> > I made food:
> >
> > - FOOD COOK^nodding
> > - FOOD COOK PAST
> > - FOOD COOK FINISHED!
> >
> > non-manual features are very important here.
> >
> > Shane
> >
> >
> > 2010/1/6 Gan  Lu <glu at uclan.ac.uk>:
> >> Hi Charles;
> >>
> >>   Thanks for the comment. So do you reckon the past tense is necessary here? And if we use "create". should it be 'Created' then?
> >>
> >>  Thanks
> >>  Gan
> >>
> >>>>> "Charles Butler" <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com> 06/01/10 1:54 PM >>>
> >> Hmm.  In context the sign, I would think would be either "make" or "create".  The tense is carried by the situation.
> >>
> >>
> >> create
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Gan Lu <glu at uclan.ac.uk>
> >> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 8:05:15 AM
> >> Subject: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'
> >>
> >> Dear Adam and Valerie;
> >>
> >>   I'm implementing the system now. While I have a question:
> >>
> >>     why can't we use an ASL gesture to express the meaning of 'made' on the first page of the 'Frosty the Snow Man', other than using the FingerSpellings to sign these four letters respectively?
> >>
> >>     I suppose the reason is because the word 'made' is a past tense, and there is no ASL for it.
> >>
> >>  The reason I'm asking is my intention is to implement the first page as a 4-by-4 output pattern, which are 16 sign-boxes in total includes those punctuations. So I'm looking for a way to squeeze the word 'made' into a box.
> >>
> >>  Thanks
> >> Gan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________
> >>
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________
> >
> > SW-L SignWriting List
> >
> > Post Message
> > SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> 

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