question for the way to express 'made'

Thu Jan 14 01:53:34 UTC 2010

SignWriting List
January 13, 2010

I love it, Adam!!

Thank you for this video and its transcription into SignWriting...

> http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=5&sid=729

It gives much more of the "feeling" behind the making of snowballs...

Val ;-)

-----------

On Jan 13, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Adam Frost wrote:

> Here is my version of the snowman.
>
> http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=5&sid=729
>
> Adam
>
> On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Gan Lu wrote:
>
>> Hello, Adam and others;
>>
>>   Sorry for keeping silent these days, as I have been keeping  
>> working on the system development. I'm currently working on the  
>> hand movement classification, where the movements can be classified  
>> into either linear or non-linear category. Also, it can then be  
>> further identified into eight directions in its plane, the floor or  
>> wall plane. I'm also trying to look at some other percific  
>> characters of a movement in a more deep way, therefore to  
>> generalise the algorithm to cover all possible hand gesutres  
>> movements.
>>
>>  The algorithm will soon be developed, I suppose. And it will be  
>> followed by some testings, which will based on that passage we  
>> mentioned, Frosty the snow man.
>>
>>  As we discussed before, the reason we prefere this particular  
>> passage is it is relatively simple and involves less face  
>> impression. So, Adam, if you would be able to creat a very similar  
>> ASL version of current passage that will be really appreciated.   
>> Because our system currently under construction is based on the  
>> passage posted online, and it is a naive system at this stage after  
>> all, which may be hardly to cope with too much changes. But of  
>> course, I understand the word 'made' will be changed somehow.
>>
>>
>> So we look forward to your native ASL version of Frosty, Adam. And  
>> thank you very much for your effort.
>>
>> Gan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> "Valerie Sutton" <sutton at signwriting.org> >>>
>> SignWriting List
>> January 11, 2010
>>
>> Hello Adam!
>> Welcome home from Jamaica. I am so looking forward to learning more
>> about your trip, and especially the time you spent at the Caribbean
>> Christian Centre for the Deaf in Knockpatrick. No rush, but in time,
>> we want to hear all about it...
>>
>> Thank you for this message about the Frosty document, and your
>> description of what may have been the reasons for some of the writing
>> in the old 1999 document...those reasons sound accurate to me. I
>> admire Lourdes very much. Lourdes was born-Deaf in Puerto Rico, and
>> moved to the United States later, plus when she married in the US,  
>> she
>> had hearing children, so there were many language influences in her
>> life...but meanwhile...Lourdes has the courage and creativity to  
>> write
>> and do the illustrations herself, and I was so impressed and  
>> surprised
>> when she handed me the document that I was happy to post it. You can
>> read more about Lourdes on this web page:
>>
>> Lourdes Tollette
>> http://signwriting.org/library/children/frosty/frosty17.html
>>
>> And we look forward to your native ASL version of Frosty too, Adam. I
>> will be happy to post that too, with your permission (grin ;-) ....
>>
>> Val ;-)
>>
>> ----------------
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it looks like I was missed on the list. I missed you all as
>>> well, although I wouldn't traded going to the Caribbean Christian
>>> Centre for the Deaf in Knockpatrick, Jamaica and spending the time
>>> that I did with those kids. I can't even begin to tell you the
>>> enjoyment that I had there. Of course that is for another time. :-)
>>>
>>> The question of Lourdes' choice of spelling out MADE is one of the
>>> main reasons I asked if I could do a re-rendering of that part. I
>>> haven't been able to get settled enough to record it, but I will get
>>> to it. One thing I can assure you is that the spelling of MADE or
>>> even the sign for MAKE will not be in there. I don't know if anyone
>>> has ever heard this one, but I have used it a lot when in an ASL
>>> class. "Show it; don't tell it." That is precisely how I will convey
>>> the concept in my rendering.
>>>
>>> Now, since I am not Lourdes and I can't read minds all too well
>>> (although I have been accused of having that ability), I suspect
>>> that she spelled out made because she was trying to do a very close
>>> translation of the story rather than "unwrapping the story of all
>>> English wrapping and rewrapping it with ASL leaving only the diamond
>>> of the story" as my translation teacher would tell me. He also said
>>> that while Deaf people are more apt to being bilingual, the skill of
>>> translating is almost never taught leaving Deaf people very few
>>> tools to use when asked to translate a story. This is also my guess
>>> why very few facial expressions were used since English isn't an
>>> "animated" language like ASL. Also realizing the time when Lourdes
>>> wrote that translation, most Deaf people felt (and some still do
>>> today) that ASL is inferior to English.
>>>
>>> Just thought that I'd give a preliminary for those that have been
>>> waiting for so long for the day of my return. ;-D
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2010, at 9:21 AM, SignWriting wrote:
>>>
>>>> SignWriting List
>>>> January 7, 2009
>>>>
>>>> Hello Gan, Charles and Shane -
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Shane is right. There is definitely a way to do all
>>>> modifications of verbs in sign languages, but the grammar structure
>>>> is different than in spoken languages. In ASL they oftentimes will
>>>> combine the sign for MAKE or CREATE, that Charles showed you, with
>>>> the sign for FINISH, that gives the verb the past tense...however,
>>>> we need to wait for Adam Frost to come back from his trip, since he
>>>> is a native ASL signer and he can explain it better than I can...
>>>>
>>>> And Gan, the reason that Lourdes fingerspelled the sign for MADE is
>>>> not known to us...When we publish a Deaf person's writing, we try
>>>> not to change their signing style, but instead just try to assist
>>>> with the way the signs are written in SignWriting...but the actual
>>>> choice of fingerspelling versus using the past tense for MAKE was
>>>> Lourdes' choice...and we cannot get in touch with Lourdes right
>>>> now...so if you want to wait until Adam comes home...he can do his
>>>> own version of Frosty and then you will have the author to ask...
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, from your software perspective, it needs to be able to
>>>> capture and write fingerspelling and facial expressions, if you
>>>> want the software to really be used by the ASL community, because
>>>> ASL is one of those sign languages that uses a great deal of
>>>> fingerspelling and all sign languages use facial expressions...
>>>>
>>>> ASL uses a lot of fingerspelling for scientific terms that do not
>>>> have signs yet, and sometimes the fingerspelling becomes a sign in
>>>> its own right, by blending together to form an unsual group of
>>>> finger movements, so your software needs to get used to recognizing
>>>> fingerspelling...at least ASL has one-handed fingerspelling that
>>>> might be easier for your software than the two-handed
>>>> fingerspelling used in the UK...
>>>>
>>>> Those are my thoughts. Adam will be back on January 11th...
>>>>
>>>> Good luck with your software - we look forward to using it  
>>>> someday -
>>>>
>>>> Val ;-)
>>>>
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 7, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Shane Gilchrist wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Gan,
>>>>>
>>>>> we dont really have past tenses in the same sense as the English
>>>>> language - for instance, in BSL (using glosses - sorry!)
>>>>>
>>>>> I made food:
>>>>>
>>>>> - FOOD COOK^nodding
>>>>> - FOOD COOK PAST
>>>>> - FOOD COOK FINISHED!
>>>>>
>>>>> non-manual features are very important here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shane
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2010/1/6 Gan  Lu <glu at uclan.ac.uk>:
>>>>>> Hi Charles;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the comment. So do you reckon the past tense is
>>>>>> necessary here? And if we use "create". should it be 'Created'
>>>>>> then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Gan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Charles Butler" <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com> 06/01/10 1:54 PM  
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> Hmm.  In context the sign, I would think would be either "make"
>>>>>> or "create".  The tense is carried by the situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> create
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Gan Lu <glu at uclan.ac.uk>
>>>>>> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>>>>> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 8:05:15 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Adam and Valerie;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm implementing the system now. While I have a question:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  why can't we use an ASL gesture to express the meaning of
>>>>>> 'made' on the first page of the 'Frosty the Snow Man', other than
>>>>>> using the FingerSpellings to sign these four letters  
>>>>>> respectively?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I suppose the reason is because the word 'made' is a past
>>>>>> tense, and there is no ASL for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason I'm asking is my intention is to implement the first
>>>>>> page as a 4-by-4 output pattern, which are 16 sign-boxes in total
>>>>>> includes those punctuations. So I'm looking for a way to squeeze
>>>>>> the word 'made' into a box.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Gan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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