AW: 5 fingers handshape

Fri Jul 2 12:23:31 UTC 2010

I must agree with Steve on this... the rule should be "write what you see" not 
"write backwards". 

 If the core is write toward the center, even with two hands, the left and right 
hand are opposite each other, and if you turn it around for the front and the 
back, it can't be pointing to the center both times.   Else the open 5 hand 
would have to be written wrong.

The hinge hand 1/2 way point points to the center, that's where the thumb is.  

The hinge hand back of hand points to the center, that's where the thumb is.

The hinge hand palm toward you has to be outbound, else how to you show a hand 
spinning around, like you would show a dinosaur turning it's head around.  

I'm really going to have to look at this.  

  logically, this looks like my left hand eating with a right hand arrow.  

It's really the times when the hand is vertical that I see a problem.  When it 
is on an angle, then the line of the fingers predominates.  

Libras avoids this entirely because the thumb sticks out.

From: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE>
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACC.EDU
Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 7:51:18 AM
Subject: AW: 5 fingers handshape

Hi Val and sw-list, ...
....

"You do not need to be embarrassed, Dali, to ask any question, and this one
is a good one!"

I agree! 

"It oftentimes comes up."

(It is just because of these two theories ;-((  )  

...
"There are two theories in the SignWriting world on how to write these
handshapes, when the fingers are in an Angle or Hinge position, and both
ways of writing them are fine....So just relax and enjoy the differences.
Vive les différences!"

....

Well - ok. Nobody is forced whatsoever to use the SignWriting symbols in a
specific way. On the other hand - ha - if any beginner continues to teach
what he thinks and understands .. well there will be big confusion ...

Well - it seems to be a question of feeling, or following a visual
impression or kind of logical point of view - or just a matter of tradition,
familiarity... 

"Let me explain the writing method I know best - the one we use here...let's
call our writing method the "Sutton-DAC" style of writing ;-) "

Hi Val and Adam, 
It is difficult for me to follow your explanation. I cannot find any visual
proof for this ... 

I prefer the other way to write these Angle or Hinge position of the 5 hands
- following the the "thumb-rule" Just as Charles mentioned it before.
This allows a fast intuitive reading, no guessing, no additional knowledge -
just write what you see. 

Just my opinion and the way I teach it ...

Stefan ;-)

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACC.EDU] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton
Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Juli 2010 05:46
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACC.EDU
Betreff: Re: 5 fingers handshape

SignWriting List
July 1, 2010

Hello Dali and Adam!

Thank you for this question, Dali, and thank you Adam, for your answer. And
thank you for your answer too, Charles...

You do not need to be embarrassed, Dali, to ask any question, and this one
is a good one! It oftentimes comes up. There are two theories in the
SignWriting world on how to write these handshapes, when the fingers are in
an Angle or Hinge position, and both ways of writing them are fine....So
just relax and enjoy the differences. Vive les différences!

Let me explain the writing method I know best - the one we use here...let's
call our writing method the "Sutton-DAC" style of writing ;-)

The Sutton-DAC way of writing Hinge and Angle Handshapes relates to the
"Center of the Body". I work with a group of Deaf ASL signers, the Deaf
Action Committee for SignWriting (the DAC). In the late 1980s and 1990s, the
DAC used to meet in my home every Wednesday nights. Sometimes we would have
7 or 8 Deaf people sitting in my living room, drinking coffee and arguing
about grammar and writing issues together - it was really exhilarating for
me to be in on these discussions and this had a profound influence on me and
our writing style. In recent years, it has been more "on the internet"
discussions with Deaf writers, but in Adam's case, we are a team. Adam just
arrived here today, from up north, and will be staying with me July and
August, before going to Gallaudet University in September. Adam and I are
writing a book together on SignWriting Handshapes, documenting the ISWA
2010, and this issue will be discussed at length in our new textbook.

In our way of writing, the fingers are directed towards the center of the
body most of the time. Adam and other Deaf ASL signers looked at their own
hands while signing, and we discussed this a lot over several years, and it
seems that it is rare that the hand ever really turns out to the outside of
the body. When people are signing, they usually direct their fingers in a
relaxed way, slightly into the center of the body. So we write the fingers
of these handshapes directed towards the center of the body, like in the
sign for FOOD or EAT:
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