LREC 2010 conference and future SignWriting software

Wed Jun 2 05:25:55 UTC 2010

SignWriting List
June 1, 2010

Hello Carlos!
I must say, I really did not remember your first name - ha!!

I always thought of your name as "machado" because that is what your email address says ;-))

So happy to meet you, Carlos...

And of course we always remember your beautiful style of SignWriting symbols in the SVG format...I believe you used Inkscape software to produce it? It must have been a big job for you and we appreciate your work.

I certainly agree with your statement below about "real" sign language users - your work sounds important once again.

Yes, it was too bad we were late to realize about the LREC conference in Malta, especially for those who live in Malta, but I have had that happen before when conferences came to my own home town in San Diego...

So all of us need to remember to post announcements to the SW List about conferences related to any kind of sign language or notational research...or Deaf conferences...or educational conferences...

I am glad you met Maria and Tim - 

Will you be attending the TISLR 2010?

Val ;-)

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On May 27, 2010, at 5:37 PM, machado at softwarelivre.org wrote:

> Quoting Valerie Sutton <writesignlanguage at GMAIL.COM>:
> 
>> SignWriting List
>> May 27, 2010
>> 
>> And I am trying to think who Carlos is...and I know nothing about Dasher, so I am looking forward to learning more..
> Hey, there!
> 
> That Carlos would be me.
> Actually, i've presented the same project i was working on almos 4 years ago, when a had to "pause" it due to my proffesional positional back then.
> 
> You could learn a lot about Cambridge's Dasher PRojet through its home page[1].
> 
> But my point is not really dasher itself. My point is that we could benefit a lot from inference prediction when writing w/ SW to ease writing from people who matters: dayly sign language users.
> 
> I believe that allowing "real" sign language users is (one of) the best way of building meaningfull written sign language corpora. Not depending on video recognition/annotation(tough i recognize the fabublous work some reserarch groups have done so far).
> 
> I'm sorry that i have never realised the conference has not been really sound publicized in this list.
> 
> It  was really great to meet Maria and Tim in person(sadly, i can't remember to have had a conversation with Nedelina).
> 
> I believe that LREC, TISLR and a few other conferences may provide excellent enviroment for us to present SW(even when it seems that it is not the prefered notation for some applications or  researchers)
> 
> 
> Hoping to give you great news in  this list in the next few months,
> 
> Machado
>> 
>> So there were some SignWriting users at the conference - that is very encouraging!
>> 
>> Thanks for telling us, Maria, and it is very interesting to think about the different ways you all are using SignWriting...I would like to hear about that too ;-))
>> 
>> Have a wonderful evening everyone - I will be back online tomorrow morning -
>> 
>> Val ;-)
>> 
>> ------
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 27, 2010, at 1:40 PM, MARIA AZZOPARDI wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Val,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for such an interesting discussion about SW and HamNoSys. I
>>> understand your point.
>>> 
>>> Yes, that's true - we learnt very late about the conference, and there was
>>> no time to present papers. I've been through the proceedings of LREC 2004
>>> -signwriting was covered there :) Like you said, there will be more
>>> conferences in the future.
>>> 
>>> You will be pleased to know that myself, Tim Grove, Nedelina Ivanova and
>>> Carlos (from Brazil - can't rem. his surname) did meet and talked a
>>> little. In fact, Carlos gave a paper on SW but for something which I had
>>> never heard of before - Dasher. The four of us are doing very different
>>> things with SignWriting - it was great to spend some time talking, I found
>>> it very encouraging.
>>> 
>>> Maria
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> SignWriting List
>>>> May 27, 2010
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you, everyone, for your discussions about the LREC 2010. I feel many
>>>> of you have missed the point a little...So let me explain from my point of
>>>> view.
>>>> 
>>>> SignWriting software development presentations dominated the LREC 2004 in
>>>> Lisbon. You can see the majority of the papers presented at the LREC 2004
>>>> were using SignWriting for software development. I created a special web
>>>> area for all the papers and the whole proceedings and even the group
>>>> photo:
>>>> 
>>>> LREC 2004
>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/software/lisbon/index.html
>>>> 
>>>> HamNoSys presentations were there too, in 2004, but in that conference,
>>>> SignWriting had more presentations.
>>>> 
>>>> So when it comes to conferences, these things wax and wane...sort of like
>>>> a tidal wave or a snowball effect...and SignWriting will dominate at the
>>>> LREC conferences in the future...I am sure of it!
>>>> 
>>>> Meanwhile, in 2010, behind the scenes, Steve's software development with
>>>> SignWriting, which we are soon to announce, is so totally fabulous for
>>>> people who write sign languages on a daily basis, for writing real
>>>> literature and encyclopedia articles in the facial expressions and
>>>> handshapes and movements and role shifting of sign languages, that it is
>>>> really not correct to compare our work with anyone else's, including
>>>> HamNoSys, since the HamNoSys system's goals are different. HamNoSys cannot
>>>> write sign language literature. There is no comparison because the goals
>>>> of the two systems were never the same. HamNoSys is not a system designed
>>>> for writing for everyday use like SignWriting is...and therefore I feel it
>>>> is wrong to even compare the two systems, since our goals are different.
>>>> 
>>>> Why was SignWriting not present at this current LREC 2010? Because we
>>>> didn't even know about the conference until all the papers had already
>>>> been submitted and accepted...and besides...our organization doesn't have
>>>> the funds right now to pay our own way to Malta from the US, and meanwhile
>>>> our work is free on the internet for everyone to use, and we are making
>>>> huge strides forward now with really cool software for people who read and
>>>> write sign languages on a daily basis, and that has nothing to do with any
>>>> other system...
>>>> 
>>>> So this is more a choice as to when we present our work at conferences,
>>>> and not a statement as to whether one system is better or not...or more
>>>> used or not for that matter...
>>>> 
>>>> Meanwhile, there are other linguistic-based software projects that DO use
>>>> SignWriting, and also three different Avatar projects, so SignWriting is
>>>> used for these other areas too, but those projects were not represented at
>>>> this particular conference...One of the current linguistic projects using
>>>> SignWriting has recently submitted a grant to fund it, so it is just
>>>> getting started with using SignWriting for their linguistic database. If
>>>> that project succeeds, it may influence other linguistic programs in the
>>>> future to use SignWriting too, and Steve's new software development will
>>>> help that process along.
>>>> 
>>>> Remember Maria, that you did not know about the 2010 conference yourself,
>>>> until it was too late to submit? If it were not for Shane, who informed us
>>>> about the conference (thank you Shane!), I don't believe we would have
>>>> known about it...and that is ok...there are conferences in the future
>>>> where SignWriting will be present again...too bad not in Malta though!
>>>> 
>>>> I am giving you all big hugs and just know that great things are coming...
>>>> 
>>>> And may I ask...was Tim Grove from the UK, and Nedelina Ivanova from
>>>> Iceland, able to fly into Malta, and did you meet each other? I hope
>>>> so...I was thinking of all of you the whole time...I know the volcano in
>>>> Iceland made flying difficult...
>>>> 
>>>> Val ;-)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 27, 2010, at 8:10 AM, Steve Slevinski wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> MARIA AZZOPARDI wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Steve, Val and all the list,
>>>>>> I attended the LREC 2010 and I must say I was slightly disappointed at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> very low use of SignWriting in Computer Sign Language linguists. There
>>>>>> were some researchers that told me they considered SignWriting, but
>>>>>> opted
>>>>>> for HanNoSys. It would be ideal if SignWriting were used, I thought,
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>> probably can't understand the technicalities, as computers are not my
>>>>>> area.
>>>>>> Could you explain why the situation is so.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> !DSPAM:4bfee0b8314941459310706!
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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