QUESTION...Which do you prefer in ASL?

Wed Sep 22 16:39:07 UTC 2010

SignWriting List
September 22, 2010

Hello Bill!
Thank you for this feedback...it is a very interesting message, about how one communicates in ASL with numbers and it varies from person to person...wow...a lot to absorb...

And yes, we are publishing the equivalent to War and Peace in ASL now...not that title (smile)...but we just signed a contract with Tyndale Publishers of the New Living Translation of the Bible - we have their permission to translate the entire New Testament, based on the English version of the New LIving Translation, into ASL. Nancy Romero is the ASL translator and the writer in SignWriting as well...and Nancy has already completed the ASL translations of the full Gospel According to Matthew, Gospel According to John and the complete book of Romans...The Gospel According to John (all 21 chapters) will be around 500 pages...at the moment we only have the first 7 chapters in PDF format for download, which uses page numbers from 1-181, but we are now working on completing the book and obviously we will need page numbers to 500 or so, and once we put the three completed books together into one enormous volume we will be well over 1000 pages - so yes we will need page numbers for over 1000 too later...right now let's focus on the hundreds...so here is what i would like to ask...please download this document:

Gospel According to John Chapters 1-7
http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0592_ASLBible_Gospel_John_Ch1-7.pdf

or go to
http://www.signwriting.org/library/bible/Gospel_John.html#BibleJohn

to download the 7 chapters with a link...

And once you have the ASL document, open it and go to page 142, for example and look at the page number...can you read it, or would you choose another format?...I realize people are different so that is why I am going to give the book designers several choices for page number formats, but they have no choice but to choose one format for each book -

Thanks for your input, Bill...

Attached is a screen capture of one page

Val ;-)
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On Sep 22, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Bill Reese wrote:

> Val,
> The way I sign "hundred" is different, depending on the person.  Some perceive 1-C-0-1 easier, while others need 1-0-1 and some need me to mouth each number rather than "one hundred" or even mouth "one oh one."    I'll often go through possible combinations until I see that it clicks with them.   Most of the reason is simply because they're not expecting a number, so anything that helps them see that I'm signing numbers instead of words would work.    Sometimes I need to sign "number", first, so they're prepared.   All this, of course, is during discourse.   And, like Kelly Jo, I'll pull the hand back from the 1 when making the C.
> 
> When Kelly Jo mentioned that (appends the C onto the first 1), I thought of subscripts.
> 
> Can manual signs be used as subscript or superscript?  Would it be too complicated?  Would any particular part of a sign be considered that way?   I'm curious whether using subscripts after a one to denote hundred, thousand, million, billion, etc, would be a way of writing numbers in Signwriting, even if there is no comparative sign, similar to how commas are used in other alphabets but are not part of the spoken number.    For example, in English "one million, one hundred thirty-five thousand, 3 hundred and twenty-five" is written 1,135,325.   Both ways use different conventions to show the number.
> 
> Of course, that also supports writing with just numbers.   And if a book such as War and Peace is ever translated into a signed language, there would be a need for a thousands marker.
> 
> Do we need to go there?  Do we need to consider the full possible spectrum of a numbering system when writing?
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> On 9/22/2010 11:19 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>> 
>> SignWriting List
>> September 21, 2010
>> 
>> Hello Kelly Jo and everyone!
>> I really appreciate your feedback...and hope others will also tell me how they feel...
>> 
>> ASL page numbers have really be a useful tool to start people reading SignWriting...everyone has to look down to find the page number, and when they do, they have the Arabic numeral on one side of the page, and the ASL page number on the other side of the page, and most ASL signers sit there and study the writing of the page numbers in ASL and don't even realize that they are getting reading experience from that...so it is one of many small ways to build reading skills in SignWriting...
>> 
>> But ASL page numbers are also different than when we are actually signing in sentences, because they need to be short and easy to glance at, to find what page you are on...
>> 
>> So for example, although I know ASL signers pull the hand back as you say, I wonder if for page numbers, that pull-back movement isn't too much detail? But if you are writing the number in the middle of an ASL sentence, then it would be a good idea to write the arrow pulling the hand back, to show accuracy...it is a question of how much detail we put into the writing of page numbers...
>> 
>> So I would love to see your writing of the page numbers in ASL in SignPuddle, Kelly Jo - thank you for offering this -
>> 
>> For right now, to explain - I already have numbers 1-181 in the ASL dictionary in SignPuddle, following the rather formal writing with the full C for 100 (the first example in the attached)....and now I considering adding two more alternatives for book designers to choose from...that way there are choices...
>> 
>> Which of the three feels best for you? (please see attached)
>> 
>> ... imagine telling someone in ASL that you live in hotel room 181...which writing would feel best? I wonder if the third one, although not detailed, isn't the way most people would sign HOTEL ROOM 181? just three numbers 1...8...1 in a row? because it is a label on a door, rather than a part of a sentence? think of this at the bottom of page very tiny...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 21, 2010, at 8:35 PM, KJ wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Val,
>>> My pleasure - it's an interesting question!  I'm sitting here trying out different ways to sign 3-digit numbers, trying to feel which one is most natural.  For the 101, I would use the spelling with the C in the middle, definitely.
>>>  
>>> What I find really interesting, as I look at that spelling of 135, is that it feels like it should be a four-digit number because there are four handshapes!
>>>  
>>> The "hundred" - whether it's signed with the full C or just the crooked fingers - is always pulled back toward the body a little, which is why I included the movement arrow in my writing.  It also makes the two handshapes look like one unit, which is how it feels when I sign it - 1-C is one word, and the last two numbers are separate words.  Just my opinion . . . but I knew a Deaf child who actually signed 1-C-0-1 for 101!  It's like the C is a suffix on the hundreds digit.
>>>  
>>> I could write some other numbers the way I feel I'd sign them and save them into SignPuddle online, if you'd like. 
>>>  
>>> Anyone else on the list have an opinion about this?
>>>  
>>> KJ
>>> 
>> 
> 