Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

Thu Aug 14 04:10:08 UTC 2014

Hi all, 

Other than the brief overview in the Introduction about sorting by other features (timing, movement, facial expressions, etc.) I have not fully worked this out. The intro is as far as i have gotten other than the full dictionary exposition. 

In terms of the Sign-Symbol-Sequence, I have started putting every sign I looked at in ASL or Libras into the best approximation of the Sign-Symbol-Sequence as I am able symbol by symbol. This is not the default of the Sign Puddle at this time which purely goes by the numerical order of the sign, which may be, in some ways, the Sign-Symbol-Sequence but doesn't seem to be if you compare a section of the dictionary which has had a full Sign Spelling (with sequence boxes) to an area that has not. 

For example, if I search for all signs using the Index Finger (the 1 hand), when I started doing my dictionary and searched by the 1 hand they were all haphazard. When I finished actually inputting a Sign Spelling for all the signs, then they sorted by the Sign Spelling when I did a second search, and I could see whenever a sign fell out of place. It has been very slow going, but it could be done faster if we all agreed to a Sign Spelling. It is a useful exercise, even by hand shape alone. 

I would prefer the SignPuddle to sort (if requested) by whatever order has been imposed by the writer as a Sign Spelling as they may have a very good reason for putting a head first (if they are using it as a grammatical marker nod, for example). Some signs have no hands at all. It becomes a collaborative effort if we try putting a deliberately ordered Sign Spelling and only then have the automatic software sort that sign spelling by its cells in numerical order, which would have all the vertical movements, for example, follow the display order currently in the SignPuddle. Each segment of a Sign Spelling would then follow a "default" order within its segment but the overall spelling would depend on the researcher. 

Charles Butler
chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.

________________________________
 From: Valerie Sutton <signwriting at MAC.COM>
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

SignWriting List
August 13, 2014

Jonathan and Charles -
Perhaps you are working privately together and if so that is wonderful ;-)

I do not want to impose my ideas about sorting dictionaries, since this was an email for Charles and not for me - smile -

and I agree with Jonathan, Charles, that your presentation 10 at the SignWriting Symposium was a great addition to the presentations…

So is it ok with you that I tell you how we are sorting signs here? There are actually two ways we are doing it now…

Val ;-)

--------

On Aug 12, 2014, at 1:47 PM, Jonathan Duncan <duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA> wrote:

Hi Charles,
    I enjoyed your symposium “Ordering Signs in Dictionaries” http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.html
 I was wondering if Steve and Val had been able to find you a solution.  Val mentioned that she thought that Steve would have an easy way for you to do your sorting.

I would like to implement a sorting algorithm for SignWriter Studio
    as I haven't implemented any yet and I am starting to produce a
    Honduran Sign Language dictionary.  

I understood how you are doing the ordering comparing hand shapes,
    comparing rotations, comparing facings, comparing facial areas,
    etc.  I like it very much.

A couple things I wanted to ask.

For your algorithm to work properly does the sign sequence of a sign
    need to be filled out?  I am getting the impression that your
    sorting could sort dictionaries without the sign sequence, is this
    assumption correct?  Or would it sort signs according to the symbols
    in sign sequence?  It doesn't seem to take into account the order of
    the symbols in the sign sequence, is this correct?

Also do you have another document comparing the other symbols like
    movement symbols, etc?  If so could you send it to me? 

Thanks

-- 

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